Music as Diegesis

[wg-]

This only works in retrospect as you can reclassify things in separate contexts, unless someone is calling something a concept album in which case you wont listen to it anyway.

Here is an example. Wiley- Treddin On Thin Ice

Knowing what we know now, its an album about how the pressures of adapting from regional pirate radio and rave notoriety to attempted national success set against the backdrop of fighting mild paranoia & psychosis can really leave a man teetering on the edge of abyss; perhaps finding a special girl will help? However there are moments of intense joy brought about by artistic endeavour and success

At the time it was cast as a successor or equal to Dizzee because this is a different concept to sell. As a standalone album about mental illness it is a unique one of a kind project, however.

There you go

Best one on it

 

[version]

- There's another Eshun quote mentioned in the post, but I couldn't help thinking of him describing a UR record as "an object from the world it releases," too.

- I find there's a detachment that comes with the stuff that sparks the imagination. It can feel like floating up a layer, time slowing. I'm thinking that's down to having partially severed some sort of direct connection to the immediate environment. You're still in your body, but the mind's being teased out and drawn somewhere the body can't follow.

- Is memory an act of imagination? Do we just pull the stuff up or do we have to regenerate it each time?

I find myself slipping between both real and imagined landscapes and images during a piece of music. I might picture some moorland or find myself taking a bird's eye view of an arctic landscape or street level view of a futuristic city then have that interrupted by thoughts of people I've known or just emotion with no imagery at all and the whole thing will keep sliding around like that for the duration.

 

[woops]

- There's another Eshun quote mentioned in the post, but I couldn't help thinking of him describing a UR record as "an object from the world it releases," too.

- I find there's a detachment that comes with the stuff that sparks the imagination. It can feel like floating up a layer, time slowing. I'm thinking that's down to having partially severed some sort of direct connection to the immediate environment. You're still in your body, but the mind's being teased out and drawn somewhere the body can't follow.

- Is memory an act of imagination? Do we just pull the stuff up or do we have to regenerate it each time?

I find myself slipping between both real and imagined landscapes and images during a piece of music. I might picture some moorland or find myself taking a bird's eye view of an arctic landscape or street level view of a futuristic city then have that interrupted by thoughts of people I've known or just emotion with no imagery at all and the whole thing will keep sliding around like that for the duration.

I maintain that when listening to music I like the only thought going through my mind is ooh yeah that sounds really good. Lyrics are different though

 

[woops]

Shame really cos what @version describes sounds fun

 

[version]

I maintain that when listening to music I like the only thought going through my mind is ooh yeah that sounds really good. Lyrics are different though

Wonder whether that's some form of aphantasia.

 

[woops]

Wonder whether that's some form of aphantasia.

Don't say that Luke will be cross

 

[luka]

becasue i do have the old aphantasia a lot of the words i use are like
humidity, pressure, posture, bearing, texture, weight, gravity, temperature but of course you can extrapolate from touch into landscape and into character and so on

 

[luka]

i don't see a tropical rainforest but i can still be in the tropical rainforest. same with all the ice and the crystals and all the standard stage-sets.

 

[luka]

you do have to make sure you don't over-privelege the landscape metaphor because there are other factors at play, for example movement through the territory, mode of conveyance etc also a whole world of social implications of the sort i described in the time-barrier thread

 

[version]

Is it the same space as the psychedelic one? It comes across that way when mvuent writes about it, but the stuff you've talked about before about enemies getting on your line when you're tripping doesn't feel right to me when talking about music.

 

[luka]

the latter is psychic space, what WSB is the main cartographer

 

[luka]

the latter is psychic space, what WSB is the main cartographer

i was on the phone talking to someone when i typed this. which is why it makes no sense.

 

[luka]

i was agreeing with you that there is an (unstable) distinction to be made between the psychic world and the world of the imagination and that the books Burroughs writes are maps of the psychic world (among other things)

 

[version]

You were right about the map thing being irresistible when I made 'Revealing the Map'. It's such an appealing model. I read something earlier with Michael S. Judge talking about a cartography of the attentions - personal, cultural, political, mythic, cosmological - and referencing a line of Olson's,

“When the attentions change / the jungle leaps in.”

 

[version]

One thing I like about these new mvuent posts is that any gaps I think I've noticed in one will be covered in one of the subsequent ones. He's very aware of the kind of things that will pop into your head and has already thought about them.

 

[mvuent]

- There's another Eshun quote mentioned in the post, but I couldn't help thinking of him describing a UR record as "an object from the world it releases," too.

another iconic instance of you starting a thread with a great premise that got ~zero replies

"an object from the world it releases"

Apparently this is Eshun on one of UR's records. Brilliant. I'd say the same of 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords and Drexciya.

www.dissensus.com

 

[luka]

'Poetry as a generic form of discourse practice can have a distinct relation to reflection upon experience which is interior and subsequent to first-order consciousness, so that the formalisms of poetic representation can assimilate to features of conceptual awareness, especially through the conscious projection into language as itself a second-order system of higher level encoding.

The reader is placed into a temporary removal or suspension from the field of action or its direct imitation, and is invited to act as at least in part proxy to representations that are external to the reader's natural self. The reader's role, on other words, is already implictly conceptualised, sharing this intermediate framework with the poet-author as a territory of the imagination where validation rules can be reformulated or even suspended altogether. These free-floating states of invented consciousness are secured from complete disintegration by the rules and practice of language, a much more adaptive and pliable medum than natural experience; and poetical language can be transported from even the fullest range of natural/normal discourse, by the system of poetic transports (figurative and imaginary) which can be reader-intelligible even when previously unknown'

J.H. Prynne Concepts and Conception in Poetry

 

[luka]

continued 'These higher 'free' levels of poetic contrivance have been described as already self-conceptualised, in part becasue of language as a mediating code practice or even code structure. But it is possible to consider the most ambitious forms of poetical invention to be those that enter into their own form of conceptual domain so completely as to transform this into its own free 'naturalism', where all is coneptualised and therefore nothing is, a 'possible world', where abstraction functions not as that which is abstracted from something else but as autonomous at levels of second-order meaning and interpretation; this meta-discourse practice is fully supported by the language medium because natural language itself is generically conceptualised in relation to 'what there is', whether 'real' or not, elastic in upwards dimensionality, almost indefinitely so; and this is especially true of poetic discourse constructions. Within such territory, often separated from lower levels by ascription as 'in imagination' or 'sublime' an arbitary text-lexicon can be converted into a distinct vocabulary, and improvised rules for following a narrative or a performance can be formed by modification of lower-order practice, or can be newly invented in their own right. A reader may have a demanding task to interpret these 'rules', but the process may be exhilarating enough to carry the reader forward with strenuous delight'

 

[woops]

he sounds a lot like stan for a few moments there

 

[luka]

all his prose is like that