Keir Starmer

john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
DannyL said:
A movement that utterly failed to achieve anything beyond a historic loss of seats.
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Given the intensity of the climate emergency, the rich/poor divide and a whole bunch of other issues that centrism is incapable of solving, I think the odd spectacular failure is OK really.

Better to try out radical ideas and fail than wrap yourself in the comforting blanket of pandering to the most reactionary segments of the electorate, media and ruling class - and still fail but not quite so much.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
john eden said:
Given the intensity of the climate emergency, the rich/poor divide and a whole bunch of other issues that centrism is incapable of solving, I think the odd spectacular failure is OK really.

Better to try out radical ideas and fail than wrap yourself in the comforting blanket of pandering to the most reactionary segments of the electorate, media and ruling class - and still fail but not quite so much.
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Oh ffs man, come on! Don't talk to me about new politics and ideas when you're defending Corbyn. Half of his constituency was boomers who'd quit the party over Iraq and he's not had a new idea since 1980. It was the worst sort of left wing revivalism. Anyway, I didn't want to get into an argument with you. I was reacting to Subvert's post which was just yet more evidence of that wing of the parties inability to acknowledge their failures.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
Hating Starmer is the glue that's holding them together. I agree that centrism doesn't have the answers to our various crises but I don't think that justifies fucking up hugely which you're basically excusing. I know electoral politics is not your bag so fair dos but an absolutely fucking miserable failure by any metric doesn't deserve handwaving way as "oh it was a grand experiment"
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Well I’m not defending Corbyn really. I think building a movement is the right approach though.

And now is the time for bold crazy ideas like free broadband and nationalising the energy companies.

Building a movement and working towards a completely new world is a messy business though.

Personally I don’t think the Labour Party is the right vehicle to do it.

But anyone doing it will be absolutely savaged by the powers that be and nobody is perfect.

So we keep losing until we win. And the clock keeps ticking.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Also there is nothing wrong with hating Starmer. Or Boris, or any of these wankers.

My hope is that there is a lot more of that, in fact.
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
I agree with you re. Building a movement, and that Labour was the wrong vehicle for it. The problem is hating Starmer is easier so that's what they'll do.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
DannyL said:
A movement that utterly failed to achieve anything beyond a historic loss of seats.
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tbf good, #accelerate the contradictions. It's what Mark would have wanted. The sooner party gate is over and the sooner Starmer plummets like 2019 labour the better. Even @vimothy knows I'm not trolling, this is what accelerationism logically entails.

I also hasten to add that I am not an accelerationist and have not had any sexual relations with accelerationists.
 
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john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
For better or worse Corbyn’s supporters made Labour the largest political party in Europe and their help with canvassing certainly seemed to me to have a positive effect in 2018.

As Third says, the contradictions at the heart of this meant it couldn’t last.

There will come a time when Labour can’t credibly blame everything on Corbyn.

A return to the triumphant days of Ed Miliband await, except with no red wall.
 
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