I found book about old magick and here is some occult pictures

[john eden]

Well, instead of putting me down

LMFAO! Yes, because that's bad, isn't it?

(for the record i disagree with everything you just said - if someone puts me down for saying something because they don't like the style in which i say it, i will most likely respond until i get an answer)

no surprises there, then.

, perhaps you would share the conclusions you made when 'you were my age', how these conclusions have survived and been chisselled by the path you have walked, and where you stand now on the issue.

One of the conclusions I came to is that it is very hard to adequately describe a lot of this stuff in this sort of forum. And that, certainly as far as the net is concerned, those who speak don't know and those who know don't speak.

Having said that, I will try to answer your question. I did reach a lot of conclusions about everything being connected, about humans being composed of the rational and the irrational, about true will. I'm not going to get into a willy waving competition about it here though.

Sometime later I reflected on where all that had got me, about what use I was putting that knowledge to, about how to put the skills I had developed to use. My main conclusion from that was that essentially great swathes of it had been self-delusion, wackiness for the sake of it and self-indulgent headgames. That is not to detract from the process, as of course it made me what I am today.

When I walked out my front door there were very immediate problems which needed to be dealt with. Translating my conclusions and my previous knowledge into a way of addressing these problems has proved very interesting. It has also constantly reinforced the comments I made earlier about learning from people and not looking down one's noses at them.

What is your explanation for 'paranormal' activity, for 'psychic' perception, for 'religious' experience, and the fact that all these things seem to point to the same fundamental idea - the one i am sharing with you? I am sharing what i have discovered, and it would be nice if you are to be so judgemental that you also share.

I was going to write something sarcastic here, but my honest answer is that I don't feel any need to explain these phenomena.

BTW - Crowley's 'Every man and woman is a star' also refers to the Qabbalistic and simultanous Hindu notions of the Sun being the symbol for the heart center/Tipareth/Anahata - Stars being centres of consciousness in the cosmos just like we are as sparks of awareness emanating from pure consciousness, as has commonly been understood by all the traditions named. I cannot understand why someone like you would even quote Crowley when he was one of the first people to assert this idea of the unity of all traditions, be in his own wicked way. Have you read Eight Lectures on Yoga?

Indeed. "someone like me"? Or me? I honestly can't remember whether or not I read the book you mention. It is possible that I did.

If you like, i'd like to hear what you think of what is known as Theta Healing - a modality i practice that works directly with the Source and gives direct assurance of the existence of a supreme intelligence, every time. I'd also like to hear what you think of crystals, Pranic Healing, Reiki and other such 'new age' 'alternative' therapies that I see in action and working time and time again...

I don't really have any interest in the things you mention.

 

[matt b]

I'd also like to hear what you think of crystals, Pranic Healing, Reiki and other such 'new age' 'alternative' therapies that I see in action and working time and time again...

have you not heard of the placebo effect?




why do you think that human beings will ever understand everything, including those phenomena you mention?

why do you think you have the answers?

why do insist on calling those who question the confused statements you make vapid consumerists?

 

[jenks]

I keep on putting off a response to you Bloggo because i don't want to come across as a tired and cynical character but your constantly bumptious responses are starting to get wearisome.

whether all religions are the same is debatable but what is beyond doubt is that very few adherents of most of the world religions would agree that they were all the same.

maybe having spent many years reading people like Donne, Hopkins, Arnold et al, and growing up as a Catholic, i tend to think that an essential element of faith is surely doubt - after all the great leap in the dark that is belief is based on not knowing what it is we are leaping into - the void? god's arms? the infinite?nothingness?


I am glad for you that you feel you have found something that makes sense of the world for you but the tone of smug self congratulation on your fnding of this is a touch off putting and seems to run counter to what i would have expected.

as you said ages ago on this thread, people aren't going to change your mind, it's closed already, so i hope i haven't offended you unecessarily, i just feel that there are much more interesting discussions to have about faith in the 21st century.

 

[Lichen]

You don't want to know what I think...but here goes....muddled gibberish.


If I became seriously ill I would rely on:

Diet

Exercise (if the condition allowed)

The best doctor I could find and the best drugs he could

Family and friends (love)


The rest is smoke and mirrors. I've seen someone I love shattered into pieces by the loathsome nonsense of a spiritual healer and the false dawn they conjured. Eugh.

 

[mms]

new age practices, in terms of understanding rituals etc they're all right but as for healing ill people they suck the big one. I grew up with alot of this stuff all my life, and in my late teens myy mum was very ill but she was so suspicious of modern medicine (mainly thru a kind of dismissive attitude to science etc) that she never went to see an nhs doctor, got much iller, spent alot of money on these things and got poorer, (she couldn't work at the time, but was very prideful about not taking any benefits).

When an accupuncturist actually did the right thing and referred her to a doctor, she was in the later stages of a brain tumour. They cut it out over 2 days of keyhole surgery, and she was ok, told she'd never walk or eat properly again but alive and very thankful.

However as you've probably guessed she's stubborn and prideful so she got back into a routine of yoga (she's been doing it for 40 or so years now ) when she could actually voluntarily move anything. She has now beaten all expectations can walk around talk and eat reasonably well, so i guess what i'm trying to say is it's better to have a balanced view on things and trust that you need some serious help of you are very ill.

 

[zhao]

ofcourse there are a lot of wack-job crack-pot new age healers out there. does not mean that "alternative medicine" or "natural healing", derivative of many traditional eastern practices, is not in many, perhaps most ways much more effective than mainstream medicine.

I personally was very ill a couple of years ago - long story short there was a knot in my intestines - basically from unhealthy eating habits. I went to a "natural healing" doctor, and after 30 seconds of examination told me exactly what was wrong, and took another 5 seconds pressing down on my stomach with light pressure, and there was this little sound like a burp from inside me. after that I was completely well.

if I had gone to a hosipital they would have cut me open, cut out the knot, and replaced the piece of instestine, and would have taken months to heal.

 

[mms]

ofcourse there are a lot of wack-job crack-pot new age healers out there. does not mean that "alternative medicine" or "natural healing", derivative of many traditional eastern practices, is not in many, perhaps most ways much more effective than mainstream medicine.

sure, but alot of the snake oil stuff is extremley popular, take something like bach flower remedies, it's ridiculous to even imagine these do anything, but then alot of various types of medical practice have crack pot ideas, verdic medicine and chinese medicine among them. Western medicine equally has practices which are detrimental to the people they are supposed to heal, these things are often down to consumer trends rather than wether they are actually any use, and go unvetted too.

 

[Parson]

homeopathic anything is snake oil but i'm very curious about accupuncture.

i hear stories.

 

[the undisputed truth]

...just for the record...

childOftheBlogosphere is not the undisputed truth and neither am I...

...fuck y'all are some funny cunts though

cheers...

 

[mms]

...just for the record...

childOftheBlogosphere is not the undisputed truth and neither am I...

...fuck y'all are some funny cunts though

cheers...

oh c'mon thats the most boring thing you could say mr truth..

 

[the undisputed truth]

^^^says the tasteless man with no fashion sense...

...I would be interested to know what COTB's ethnic and cultural background is though

 

[rob_giri]

At no point did i ever intend to involve my-self in this - 'I' don't really matter, i have put a series of concepts and ideas towards you all and wanted to hear the response - i will stick by the idea that your accusations of self-important smugness has been projected by you and taken the wrong way, i don't feel personally as if this is a situation of someone trying to convert someone as many of you seem to be taking it. I have been overwhelmed by evidence hundreds upon hundreds of times and there is no longer any reason for me NOT to resist what i now know to be true. Anyway.....


Pretty much all of the above responses to 'alternative' medicine are totally non-informed in nature and are the result of bias and non-sensical thinking. Any sensible herbalist or naturopath or energy healer will send anyone with a 'serious' illness to a western Doctor, if they don't, and there have been reported cases such the one described, then they are crack-pots in my book and should be stopped - being an advocate of all types of healing i feel very passionately about this case. However - there is little or nothing that Western medicine can do about a lot of mental, emotional and 'spiritual' imbalances - it is this area that 'alternative' medicine excells. However, as a Pranic Healing practicioner, I have seen physical conditions that would have taken months to heal be over in a week (Pranic Healing is meant to go hand-in-hand with modern medicine, and there are hospitals in the US that currently train their doctors in PH). I have seen several cases of people walk out of hospitals in days after continuous treatments when they were recommended to stay in for months. When you study this stuff and go into it, you will see it. However, if you don't study it and make a judgement before even checking it out, then you will make an ignorant statement like most the ones above

All I have really done here is present evidence to you that all traditions and many advances in modern science (many things proved beyond a doubt with experiments) seem to be pointing to the same unitary understanding of Reality. This is not 'new-age clap-trap', it just so happens that a lot of hippies in the 70s were on about the same thing and made it into this fluffy codswallop that you or I cannot accept - Style, in other words.


Jenks:

Once again, I do not matter, I don't care about defending myself so much as I care about hearing what everyone has to say about this stuff. Almost every response I've heard has been either mis-informed, just plain wrong or aggressive. I have not really heard much intelligent responses, as most of it has been aimed at the style that I am presenting it in rather than the essence of what i am saying. This, once again, supports what i was suggesting before...

And of course, doubt, doubt all you can, any time any element of your being tries to 'believe' anything, doubt it all - belief is the tomb of truth, once you believe something you automatically give away your intelligence. Of course i don't have to tell you this, I just wanted to let you know that we are all in the same boat! However, when there is provable evidence suggesting something about reality that you cannot deny, don't let your fear and emotions get in the way and cheaply ignore it, go into it and let go of the parts of you that are fearfully resisting. That is of course if you want to be true to yourself, i cannot see why one would ignore it like so many people do.



But if you are so interested in me i will tell you - I grew up in upper-middle class Melbourne, Australia, and both of my parents are Western Doctors - a GP and a Paediatrician. I get along with my folks fine, and see no contradiction in what they do to what i do. However, when it comes to mental health, there is a contradiction, because psychiatric treatment tries to block away the symptoms instead of getting to the cause. My sister is also studying Medicine after finishing Biomedical science, and we talk at length about the connections between all this stuff. In Medical school, she is taught about all of this stuff to. In fact there is a question in one of the exams - Should we ignore complimentary medicine? (if you answer No then you fail!) I have had experiences with Chinese Medicine, naturopathy, pranic healing, Theta healing, Reiki and yes - flower essences! and others, and see them as being 'the way' in treating the subtler parts of our system - all have shown signs to work. I had mental and emotional problems as a youngster but am now perfectly healthy due to these things. I have seen them work hundreds of times, provable in ways beyond what the ignorant perception of them simply being a 'placebo' could describe - and of course, someone who is ignorant of this stuff will obviously pull the old 'you nitwits its just the placebo effect'. I am now presenting to you what my studies in all these things, backed up by almost every level of science and philosophy and culture, have shown. I don't care what you think about me - my mind is TOTALLY open for my understandings to be broken, but so far not a single thing that anyone has said has come even close to challenging my understandings, merely mocked them for the style that they are associated with.

So as Zhao says - why so much resistance? Am I really that bad a person? I see no contradiction in what i have said or the way i have said it, if anything maybe next time i will be a bit subtler because i am obviously talking about truths that some of you seem not to be able to handle!

 

[rob_giri]

Sometime later I reflected on where all that had got me, about what use I was putting that knowledge to, about how to put the skills I had developed to use. My main conclusion from that was that essentially great swathes of it had been self-delusion, wackiness for the sake of it and self-indulgent headgames.

Interesting. I'm sure you realise that the reason i have brought all this up is a sort of experiment to guage where the cutting-edge of what i will refer to as the 'western cultured intellect' is reletive to levels of understanding the latest discoveries in the nature of the reality we are living. I had hypothesized that most of the concepts pertaining to what the ancients referred to as 'Unity', which a large swathe of people down here melbourne, australia 'groove on' would be reacted to on a personal level by most of you with large volleys of self-doubt and cynicism, treated by layers and layers of self-defeating profiles pertaining to the addiction to cool meaningless that european existentialism has left us. Doubt all you want - but make sure your skepticism is Constructive rather than Destructive. Constructive is using the heights of the intellect to discern the truth in things, Destructive being emotionally denying things that seem true because you can't handle them and using any fleeting and irrelevant reason you can to cut them down.

And thats it, there really is something cool about living in a world of mysterious complexity, and when things are rendered simple and straightforward like someone producing evidence of the interconnectedness of all things, the intellectual thinking mind (which represents about 1/4 of the apparatuses of our consciousness, rather than 100% like some of you seem to act) reacts violently and then projects more complexity to counterract it, most of the time transgressing the borders of common sense, at times resembling a dogmatic sect struggling desperately to keep its tradition alive at all costs - all in order to regress back into a comfort zone of mental slumber.


And yeah, when i had a series of experiences proving to me beyond a doubt the interconnectedness of all things, and then read and studied this stuff - i resisted it heaps too, becoming bored because everything in my life and all my games and all my desires suddenly had been rendered meaningless. I resisted heaps until i realised almost the opposite of what you realised - that my resistance, the very part of me that was struggling to ignore the fact that the cool existential meaningless had suddenly been given 'meaning', had essentially been swathes of self-delusion, wackiness for the sake of it and self-indulgent headgames. It was my illusion of self that was keeping me from understanding and eventually accepting these things. So yeah, interesting to hear you say that...

 

[rob_giri]

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/holoUni.html

 

[Eric]

*gives up*

<i>

my resistance, the very part of me that was struggling to ignore the fact that the cool existential meaningless had suddenly been given 'meaning', had essentially been swathes of self-delusion, wackiness for the sake of it and self-indulgent headgames. It was my illusion of self that was keeping me from understanding and eventually accepting these things.

</i>

Maybe the upshot is that, on this point, both you and John are right?

(Advice: As to style, perhaps you're right that everyone should see past your prose and read the essence, but that's not likely to happen when the prose style indicates that you think your audience consists of blind fools. This is not something that you have fixed in your last posts btw!!! sigh)

 

[rob_giri]

(Advice: As to style, perhaps you're right that everyone should see past your prose and read the essence, but that's not likely to happen when the prose style indicates that you think your audience consists of blind fools. This is not something that you have fixed in your last posts btw!!! sigh)

I don't think you are blind fools - I think you are very intelligent and very cultured people who are interested in the truth of things - and that is why i have presented all of this as i stated earlier.

It just so happens that most of what i have seen has been destructive skepticism.

Love to you all

 

[zhao]

Any sensible herbalist or naturopath or energy healer will send anyone with a 'serious' illness to a western Doctor, if they don't, and there have been reported cases such the one described, then they are crack-pots in my book and should be stopped - being an advocate of all types of healing i feel very passionately about this case. However - there is little or nothing that Western medicine can do about a lot of mental, emotional and 'spiritual' imbalances - it is this area that 'alternative' medicine excells.

in my experience and knowledge, this is not entirely true.

it is very, very difficult to separate fact from ficiton in this realm, so perhaps only personal experience can be relied upon. in additional to the episode I related above, I know someone right now who has a serious illness, and should be bed ridden like everyone else who have the same disease, who are on western medication -- but is one of the most energetic and good humoured person I know -- because of a strict raw-vegan diet, as well as daily herbal remedies.

the belief that I lean toward is that the powers of natural healing -- often as simple as the right diet, which is very different from the very wrong diet we are all accustomed to; sometimes with massive intake of the right combination of plants -- are grossly underestimated. this stems from the position that our bodies are extremely well "designed" (for lack of better), and are very, very capable of healing itself, provided that it has what it needs to do it.

but yes, some things you probably have to go to hospital... both east and west practices are surely better at somethings than others...

 

[DJ PIMP]

What I realised about my experience and understanding of the unified field of consciousness was that it doesn't really matter. Lord knows I have tried to blow up the world in my head numerous times, and succeeded on several occasions (hurrah!), but it always comes back. When it does, I still have to put one foot in front of the other, and no matter how I intellectualise or conceptualise, it is what it is.

Eat when hungry.
Sleep when tired.

 

[rob_giri]

What I realised about my experience and understanding of the unified field of consciousness was that it doesn't really matter. Lord knows I have tried to blow up the world in my head numerous times, and succeeded on several occasions (hurrah!), but it always comes back. When it does, I still have to put one foot in front of the other, and no matter how I intellectualise or conceptualise, it is what it is.

Eat when hungry.
Sleep when tired.

haha

And so, inevitably (this usually happens in discussions i have with people) - it returns to the 'who cares' debate. 'Nah, mate, you still have to work to survive' etc etc.

I have always found this to be amusing, and as i stated near the beginning of this discussion - there is a massive difference between living and walking in your truth and living a bunch of lies and illusions. In fact it changes everything, on every level of society and on every level of our individual being. Don't you see the difference between a society of people living in harmony with nature and the universe and a society of people working till they die because there is nothing and there physicality is all there is?

Now once again, the style of this truth is a little cheesy, but after all i have said i think i have stressed the point enough that this is an illusion that everyone should be intelligent enough to transcend.

What is happening is that a unified spiritual understanding is being reconized by people all over the world, and that it is totally free of dogma or any other coercive tools that may be used for division, seperation and control. The world is finally uniting under one common understanding now that we are all realising that there truly is no seperation, and i personally think you can't really get anything anymore relevant than that...

All those in favour stick up your hand and go about your daily lives as you did before, except perhaps a little more consciously, but all those who disagree with me and would like to see the world go down another road of coercion and despair, all because the whole things sounds to you to be a little 'too fluffy' and 'bland', please feel free to leave the room and go about your cynical and skeptical existence...

 

[john eden]

I have always found this to be amusing, and as i stated near the beginning of this discussion - there is a massive difference between living and walking in your truth and living a bunch of lies and illusions. In fact it changes everything, on every level of society and on every level of our individual being. Don't you see the difference between a society of people living in harmony with nature and the universe and a society of people working till they die because there is nothing and there physicality is all there is?

This is getting quite boring now. All you are talking about is your opinion vs other people's opinions.

It is only you on this thread who is so egotistical that you call your opinion "truth".

to turn this on its head - nobody is living a bunch of lies and illusions - they are living their truth. You seem annoyed that they aren't living your truth. Having met many contributors to dissensus I can honestly say that all of them were completely conscious that there is more to life than working until you die, or the physical.

for those of us actively trying to create a world which is more equal and more in harmony with nature (instead of wanking on about casteneda and new age healing on the internet) your comments about our "illusions" are at best insulting.