how much damage did trumpo do?

luka

Well-known member
i was struck in the early days on hes presidency craner said he was petrified and i assumed craner would love him
i kept refreshing the feed to see if hed do something mental
in the end it was kind of fine although you didn get the sense he was reinforcing some of the worst instincts of
the powerful modi, duotaroo, bolsoranoo, etc
in a way that felt like the consensus rules were being exploded
 

luka

Well-known member
Sherbert

Sherbert
4 hours ago

26
Trump reminds me of my grandad when he started experimenting with ketamine in his later years.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Definitely nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be at the time.

If he gets in again and stops the US sending billions to fund that stupid war in Ukraine I'll be happy.
 

version

Well-known member
The biggest issue a lot of people seemed to have with Trump was his personality. You could see this in how they suddenly warmed to Bush, McCain, Romney and all the previous Republicans they'd hated because "at least they were decent,".
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
Cutrone in 2016

Everything Trump calls for exists already. There is already surveillance and increased scrutiny of Muslim immigrants in the “War on Terror.” There is already a war against ISIS. There is already a wall on the border with Mexico; there are already mass deportations of “illegal” immigrants. There are already proposals that will be implemented anyway for a super-exploited guest-worker immigration program. International trade is heavily regulated with many protections favoring U.S. companies already in place. Hillary will not change any of this. Given the current crisis of global capitalism, international trade is bound to be reconfigured anyway. […]

When he’s called a “narcissist who cares only for himself” — for instance by “Pocahontas” Senator Elizabeth Warren — this is by those who are part of an elaborate political machine for maintaining the status quo who are evidently resentful that he doesn’t need to play by their rules.

This includes the ostensible “Left,” which has a vested interest in continuing to do things as they have been done for a very long time already. The “Left” is thus nothing of the sort. They don’t believe change is possible. Or they find any potential change undesirable: too challenging. If change is difficult and messy, that doesn’t make it evil. But what one fears tends to be regarded as evil.

Their scare-mongering is self-serving — self-interested. It is they who care only for themselves, their way of doing things, their positions. But, as true narcissists, they confuse this as caring for others. These others are only extensions of themselves.


And again in 2020

What is the argument against Trump’s reelection? That he is utterly unbearable as a President of the United States? That Trump must be stopped because the world is running out of time? Either in terms of the time spent by separated children being held under atrocious conditions in appalling immigration detention centers, or that of glaciers falling into the ocean? Both of these will continue unabated, with or without Trump. The Democrats neither can nor will put a stop to such things — not even slow them.

What is the argument for electing the Democrats, then? A Green New Deal? — Will never happen: Obama promised it already in 2008. That they will restore “civility” to American life? Like we had under Obama? In other words, the same conditions, but with a comforting smile instead of an irritating smirk? […]

The arguments against Trump by the Democrats have been pessimistic and conservative, distrustful and even suspicious of American voters — to which he opposes an unflappable confidence and optimism, based in faith in American society. Trump considers those who vote against him to be mistaken, not enemies. But the Democrats consider Trump voters to be inimical — deplorable and even irredeemable. […]

The Democrats' only answer to racism, sexism and homophobia is to fire people and put them in prison. — Whereas Trump lets people out of jail to give them a job.
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
People won’t like that last bit about Democrats thinking Trump voters are monsters whereas Trump and his voters find their opponents confused. For what its worth, my parents are both very mild-mannered, nice, fairly apolitical and ‘normal’ people (no bumper stickers etc.) who voted for Trump. If I were to tell them my friend or their parents are voting for Kamala, they’d disapprove but would rather move on or not let that paint how they see them as a person. Whereas when I tell that friend or more often their dyed in the wool Democrat parent about my parents voting for Trump, there is a real horror and incredulous outrage expressed there, like my parents have literal blood on their hands, are outright low IQ or less deserving of respect. And I do think my parents represent your average Trump voter more than some Patriot Prayer wingnut or white supremacist. My dad’s off the Trump train, they’ll both vote for him over Kamala though, but my mom other than being staunchly anti-abortion is primarily motivated by this attitude of being looked down on by liberal professional types for her cultural values, where she shops, her faith, not being politically correct, etc and for the way Trump’s being targeted by liberals affirms her in that.

Again, the rhetorical overcorrection on Cutrone’s part will make us point out Republicans are guilty of engaging in this same kind of counter-identification and straw-manning (gay satanic baby killers and what have you at the extreme end), but with regards to TDS and the way the Democrats have set the stage for the reflexive way people who see themselves to the left of them deal with Trump, this is worth thinking about. Dems really did get people to turn their brains off and held them hostage with moral blackmail like they were what stood between the country and a white supremacist apocalypse. And from what I understand the whole Roe v Wade abortion thing is a wash anyways; abortion will be decided state by state regardless of who’s in power, there won’t be a federal ban or mandate with either party. The two right wings of capitalist politics just dangle these handful of issues they ostensibly disagree on to differentiate themselves from each other, they’re all much better friends than we imagine in the end. And yeah glib sounding point but it still stands
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The biggest issue a lot of people seemed to have with Trump was his personality. You could see this in how they suddenly warmed to Bush, McCain, Romney and all the previous Republicans they'd hated because "at least they were decent,".
I don't recall any of those guys being accused of rape or sexual assault by 25 women, though. Or even one, I think.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
To answer Luka's question, first thing that comes to mind for me is the Muslim travel ban. Probably fucked up the lives of lots of people, gave a licence to discriminate etc.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
If he gets in again and stops the US sending billions to fund that stupid war in Ukraine I'll be happy.
You've got kids, haven't you, Benny? At least one of them a boy?

My son is going to primary school next month, and I really, really don't want him to get conscripted into the army to fight a hot war in Europe in 15 years time.

What actions taken now and in the next few years make that less likely, do you think, and what actions make it more likely?
 

luka

Well-known member
To answer Luka's question, first thing that comes to mind for me is the Muslim travel ban. Probably fucked up the lives of lots of people, gave a licence to discriminate etc.
at the time it was definitely a sense of setting precedents, undermining consensus, loosening the bonds of civilization, encouraging and enablingvarious psychos, tyrants, making everything feel a lot less stable, way more fractious, hyterical, divided
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
You two are fucking simple. No way I'm getting dragged into one of your stupid political debates so don't bother trying.
 
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