Keir Starmer

Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
IMG_7838.jpeg

not saying his eyes are weird or ”don’t look em in the left eye” yoghurt-weaving hippy bollocks but ..
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Benny Bunter

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Maybe the left-leaning people disappointed/angry at Starmer who voted Labour should have voted Tory last election? Seems unthinkable cos of tribalism, but it would have been more foresightful.
 
Benny Bunter

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
What, so they got a nice new left-wing Tory government instead? 🤔
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I'm talking about having foresight, getting over tribalism, and playing the long game.

I think whatever side of the political spectrum you lean to, it probably would have been better for both sides if the tories had stayed in, now Reform are on the rise.
 
subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Benny Bunter said:
Maybe the left-leaning people disappointed/angry at Starmer who voted Labour should have voted Tory last election? Seems unthinkable cos of tribalism, but it would have been more foresightful.
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Seems unthinkable cos the left-leaning people didn't actually want a Tory government, but they got one anyway.

Benny Bunter said:
I'm talking about having foresight, getting over tribalism, and playing the long game.

I think whatever side of the political spectrum you lean to, it probably would have been better for both sides if the tories had stayed in, now Reform are on the rise.
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It's nothing to do with tribalism. The working class Labour "tribe" is long gone. Reform are on the rise simply because Starmer and crew are useless.

Basically, apart from idiots worked up about the non-issue of the "boats", Reform is a "fuck the whole lot of you" vote. Ironically so, because Reform is full of former Tories, and Farage is the most Tory of the lot.
 
Benny Bunter

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
The mindset of 'get the tories out at all costs' in the last election has lead to this unhappy situation of a fucking useless PM and Reform on the rise. Tribalism and lack of foresight has everything to do with it.

Sorry I laughed at you btw, I shouldn't have done that.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
Why would you choose to vote in a party that have been both incompotent and spiteful and decietful on a grand scale. A party everyone hates. A party that has trashed the country. I dont get it. Wheres the logic
 
version

version

Well-known member
I don't think the bulk of the people claiming Labour are doing terribly could give you a coherent answer as to why they think that. It all seems based on 'vibes' picked up from a hostile press and online influence campaigns.

Not convinced by Benny's "long game" strategy either as all that's likely to have done is allowed the Tories to make an even bigger mess for Labour to take the blame for not fixing overnight.

subvert47 said:
Reform are on the rise simply because Starmer and crew are useless.
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There'll be a range of factors, but the primary reason Reform are on the rise seems to be that there are a ton of voters fixated on immigration and Farage, with the aid of the press, has built himself a cult of personality out of it.
 
Benny Bunter

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Carry on treating immigration as a "non-issue" as both of the main parties have done, in deeds if not words, and you end up with Reform. It's been coming for decades. I don't think you can really blame the press. I blame both the main parties.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
version said:
I don't think the bulk of the people claiming Labour are doing terribly could give you a coherent answer as to why they think that. It all seems based on 'vibes' picked up from a hostile press and online influence campaigns.
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I am, or used to be, one of the more vocally pro-Labour people here, but I can give you a list of concrete things they're fucking up, or could be doing a lot better at.

A few off the top of my head would include:

- the economically illiterate assertion that high house prices and private rents are being caused by an absolute shortage of housing, even though the ratio of houses to people in this country is higher now than it was in 70s, so that councils are being forced to build millions of homes in areas that can't support them while prices and rents continue to rise well above inflation;

- a so-called "green revolution" in energy, even though renewables are pointless when we have about 0.1% of the storage capacity we'd need to run entirely on renewables, while the Drax monstrosity continues to run (and receive vast subsidies) and a third runway at Heathrow is on the cards, and energy bills continue to rise despite pre-election promises that they'd fall;

- and cutting benefits for disabled people just seems gratuitously cruel.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Benny Bunter said:
Carry on treating immigration as a "non-issue" as both of the main parties have done, in deeds if not words, and you end up with Reform. It's been coming for decades. I don't think you can really blame the press. I blame both the main parties.
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This is true, but s47 was talking about "the boats", meaning (I assume) asylum seekers, who make up a very small fraction of overall immigrant numbers.
 
version

version

Well-known member
Benny Bunter said:
Carry on treating immigration as a "non-issue" as both of the main parties have done, in deeds if not words, and you end up with Reform. It's been coming for decades. I don't think you can really blame the press. I blame both the main parties.
Click to expand...

I don't think they treat it as a non-issue, I think they disagree with and don't want to do what the people backing Farage think should be done, i.e. the kind of thing Trump's been doing. I think they're also concerned about the economic impact of such a policy.

As for the press, I think they deserve a huge portion of the blame. The amount of rubbish they're pumping out on a daily basis and the disingenuous angles they're publishing from is appalling. They're a massive factor in how fucked politics is and how ignorant the electorate are.

Mr. Tea said:
I am, or used to be, one of the more vocally pro-Labour people here, but I can give you a list of concrete things they're fucking up, or could be doing a lot better at.

A few off the top of my head would include:

- the economically illiterate assertion that high house prices and private rents are being caused by an absolute shortage of housing, even though the ratio of houses to people in this country is higher now than it was in 70s, so that councils are being forced to build millions of homes in areas that can't support them while prices and rents continue to rise well above inflation;

- a so-called "green revolution" in energy, even though renewables are pointless when we have about 0.1% of the storage capacity we'd need to run entirely on renewables, while the Drax monstrosity continues to run (and receive vast subsidies) and a third runway at Heathrow is on the cards, and energy bills continue to rise despite pre-election promises that they'd fall;

- and cutting benefits for disabled people just seems gratuitously cruel.
Click to expand...

Are these the arguments we're hearing from the majority of people though? What I've seen and heard tends to be vague ranting about immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers and that Farage "tells it like it is" and is "not like the rest of them" or flimsy moaning about Labour in general, that "Labour aren't doing anything" or that "Labour are punishing the old" based on the spin the press have put on means testing the winter fuel allowance.
 
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