Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
lool luka!
seen plenty of comments like this, but the ironic thing is trump is totally accurate when he calls it 'locker room talk', we all know that is how men (except me, of course) actually speak about women. Even worse are all these hypocritical liberal lefty dudes (except me, of course) feigning shock and disgust, then go off and defend (and wank to) porn where women are degraded in even more horrible ways for real.
Fixed it 4 U.
 

Benny B

Active member
Benny. All men except you or all men including you? I'm curious
men *in general*, or rather a dominant theme in masculine culture. The one we all know very well. Even if you don't participate directly in it yourself, we all know it, ignore it, tolerate it in our friends, fail to challenge it or even question it a lot of the time. And many liberals condemning trump who are quick to point out that they're 'not like that' use/defend porn and prostitution where women are degraded in far worse ways. I think its much better to admit there's a problem that all men are implicated in to some degree and ask ourselves what we can do about it rather than just make lazy, hypocritical condemnations of outright misogynists like trump.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
i dont think what youre saying is entirely without merit Benny, just to make that clear. I was wondering to what extent you are willing to implicate yourself.
 

vimothy

yurp
It's an extreme cliche at this point, but it largely boils down to class and partisan alignment. People who defend Clinton don't care about her defence of her "philandering" (and alleged rapist) husband and his "association" with the notorious billionaire paedophile, Jeffrey Epstein (including multiple trips on his private jet, the so-called "Lolita Express"). What matters is that the people attacking her are uneducated, mouth-breathing types who can't string coherent sentences together. Equally, the people who defend Trump don't care about his misogyny, the accusations of sexual assault (including a recent accusation of child rape, stemming from his "association" with Epstein), tax avoidance, personal instability, etc, etc. What matters is that the people attacking him are smug elitists who think they're better than everyone else.
 

Leo

Well-known member
What matters is that the people attacking her are uneducated, mouth-breathing types who can't string coherent sentences together.
that's not true. for decades before trump even ran for office, the republican establishment (aka, washington elites) carried out sustained attacks on the clintons, both through official means (numerous congressional hearings, impeachment proceedings, etc.) and right-wing media outlets.
 

Leo

Well-known member
"all men says those things" doesn't make it right or tolerable

"all men" aren't running for president of the USA.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
It's one of the worst choices in the history of politics. Two pretty awful people, but one appreciably even more awful. That said, clearly for a lot of people life won't be any better whatsoever under Hillary 'I'm proud we slashed welfare' Clinton than it will under Trump, and that's why HC's cheerleaders are pretty sickening.

Trump threatening Clinton with prison and then saying that he really respected that she didn't give up was grimly fascinating dissociation.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
and Dissensus is male locker-room conversation too right?

But Benny has a point, though I'd have phrased it slightly differently, as I think the way Trump talked was an extreme example of the kind of misogyny that is very prevalent when groups of men are talking (and lots of stuff goes unchallenged, for sure, but that's the same with implicitly racist comments etc). Wider than that, male privilege/female disadvantage is so interwoven with what we take as 'normal', that almost all men have a limit to the extent to which they support women's emancipation, or delude themselves that societal pressure/conditioning for women to be a certain way is 'free choice' (sexualisation of appearance being the most obvious). I include myself in that, cos I'd be delusional if I didn't. Although I am making some effort to unpack the conscious and unconscious misogyny...
 
Last edited:

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
C'mon Tea, casual sexism goes unchecked all the time. As above, I differ from Benny (if I'm reading his original comment correctly) in that I think the Trump example is the extreme edge of a general trend, rather than itself typical of the way men talk about women behind closed doors.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
That said, clearly for a lot of people life won't be any better whatsoever under Hillary 'I'm proud we slashed welfare' Clinton than it will under Trump
What's dangerous is that a large number of Americans actually would benefit materially from Trump's policies. In the short to medium term at least, before civil society finally and irrevocably collapsed.
 

Benny B

Active member
Well if such a notable feminist as yourself can't be bothered to stand up to sexism, what hope is there for the rest of us?
I'm not a feminist

And are you aware your #notallmen-isms are making you sound like an MRA...again.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
C'mon Tea, casual sexism goes unchecked all the time. As above, I differ from Benny (if I'm reading his original comment correctly) in that I think the Trump example is the extreme edge of a general trend, rather than itself typical of the way men talk about women behind closed doors.
But does Benny B, personally, just let it slide? Is he as guilty as the rest of us? I don't understand the psychology of the extreme white-knight type of male feminist who constantly bangs on about how terrible men are. Do they include themselves in the great suppurating morass of Bad Men? Because it has very weird implications either way.

Or is it like, I'm bad too, but I at least know I'm bad, which makes me less bad than the rest?
 
Top