droid

Beast of Burden
Sure, and Id have some sympathy for that POV, but the problem now is that techno/house/bass etc have become conjoined.
 

chava

Well-known member
Sure, and Id have some sympathy for that POV, but the problem now is that techno/house/bass etc have become conjoined.

That did not go very well, indeed. Genres should be kept seperate to cultivate further. Techno, house or jungle was never fully developed anyways.

I will vouch for more genre apartheid from now on.

Then again maybe we just got the worst parts combined.
 

droid

Beast of Burden
To summarise the proposals thus far.

  • Execution for anyone making new 4 to the floor tunes at 130bpm
  • A total 5 year ban on listening to or making music
  • Enforced genre apartheid (punishable by death?)
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
to be honest, in the UK legislation covering those proposals will probably pretty much be in force once we get our glorious new leader. all the rest of you will be playing catch-up
 

thirdform

Well-known member
9/11

The junglist massive DO get it, that's why they invented jungle.

yeh, but the junglist massive have always loved techno because they were london and not english, 4 hero putting out techno comp, nookie making techno-y house, fab and groove playing techno from big sound works for instance on their early kiss fm shows, hypes sets in 91.

the 'bass music' massive are english. there's the problem. the real enemy was progressive house and progressive trance. noone likes that in jungle unless they are, well, English.

in fact a few years ago i heard one of the UK bass people play something dangerously close to prog, might have been Hodge, might not have been.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
also the more and more i unearth sets from that 93-94 era i really find it hard to believe the idea that techno was the polite music and jungle was the heavy ruffneck music. it really seems most of that venom was A) at other journalists not the scene and B) prog house, balearic shit and some of the more lukewarm stuff that couldn't make its mind up about whether it wanted to be cheesy trance or detroit. obviously they were separate scenes by 93 but they were hitting similar types of intensities, just techno was more about mindfuck acid and screachy synths.

You know what really killed techno in this country was those cunts like mr.c who invented that gloopy mess called tech house - detroit techno without the mutant funk or jazz feel and house without the emotionalism, it was in some senses exactly like the prog trance they castigated. in fact listening back its hard to tell the difference between dark prog and tech house. luckily there were like uglyfunk and assorted others/hard techno nutters who didn't surrender. this is why contrary to popular wisdom i think the house purism was going on in garage, not tech house. and of course people like DJ Sneak DJ Rush etc were being booked at techno nights in this country.

anyway this set from 93, warlock at knowledge, quite gloomy actually, i think you'll like it Simon...

https://soundcloud.com/warlock/dj-set-at-knowledge-sw1-1993
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
anyway this set from 93, warlock at knowledge, quite gloomy actually, i think you'll like it Simon...

https://soundcloud.com/warlock/dj-set-at-knowledge-sw1-1993

This sounds alright - quite banging

i went to Knowledge once and it was quite intense but a bit austere for me by that point - this is late 92 i think - i was firmly in the nutt-E / breaks / edge-of-chaos / cartoony sped-up samples / ooozy dubdeep bass camp by that point.

When i first got into rave though I preferred the technoid Euro slamming sound over the breaks stuff - I was all about Beltram and the Belgians and things like CJ Bolland's "Horsepower". I kind of went along with the "all these breaks tunes are just thrown together" viewpoint that was the general discerning techno fan's attitude. Then I Saw the Light. And the switch-over to breakbeat as the true path (or vastly more interesting and enjoyable path and actually musically more productive and mutagenic) was certainly helped by people like Bolland making boring records (one called "Camargue", right?) and Beltram doing "Forklift", this incredibly dry, cold (but not wintry gloomcore wastelands of remote ice planets type cold) sound.

The direction out of Belgium / "Dominator" / "Mentasm" i did like was the Mover / PCP which is much more emotional and grand-sounding.

The sort of straight, banging, hard as nails techno that i guess places like Lost and Final Frontier and Orbit and Pure up in Scotland did - it always seemed like a grim slog. I remember there was some comp of that hardtechno (but not gabba) that Kickin or someone like that did, and it featured a Ajax bottle on the front - and that image, of the music as a harsh scouring agent, always stuck with me. I was like, 'yeah, this is exactly what it's about'. An austere regime of purifying hygiene.

Modeled physically by the dominant look at that time - the slaphead. Loads of people will cropped tonsures at Knowledge.

Richie Hawtin was good though but I prefer the earliest Plus 8 stuff

I do associate the hard, near-industrial purist techno with the trance though - they seemed in the same camp, supported by the same people - especially as trance then was quite cold, quite hard, quite fast. The fluffy Ibiza trance came a bit later I think.
 
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craner

Beast of Burden
I went to an Andy Weatherall thing at Morley up North once, 97 I think. Actually I went with some mates rather than by choice, and it was all slamming techno and industrial-sounding house with ice blue strobes incessantly flashing.

It was arresting and impressive for about 20 minutes but then, yes, it was just a horrible slog. Just horrendous, pounding, miserable. That's ok though, it was when it got tedious that I passed final judgement on the spectacle. No thanks. I'm outta here!
 

Bang Diddley

Well-known member
I went to an Andy Weatherall thing at Morley up North once, 97 I think. Actually I went with some mates rather than by choice, and it was all slamming techno and industrial-sounding house with ice blue strobes incessantly flashing.

It was arresting and impressive for about 20 minutes but then, yes, it was just a horrible slog. Just horrendous, pounding, miserable. That's ok though, it was when it got tedious that I passed final judgement on the spectacle. No thanks. I'm outta here!

That will be Orbit in Morley. Mills, Garnier, Bollard etc played there. It was either go there after the Warehouse at 2.00 or to come to some parties in Chapeltown. Trade Club, Francis street or West Indian Centre.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
The sort of straight, banging, hard as nails techno that i guess places like Lost and Final Frontier and Orbit and Pure up in Scotland did - it always seemed like a grim slog. I remember there was some comp of that hardtechno (but not gabba) that Kickin or someone like that did, and it featured a Ajax bottle on the front - and that image, of the music as a harsh scouring agent, always stuck with me. I was like, 'yeah, this is exactly what it's about'. An austere regime of purifying hygiene.

yeah, that's what is so good about it! rave as punishment! what's not to like? eventually the wow this is nutty buzz wares off. you want to have music that smacks you over the head with no ambitions to trying to be gothic. just a pure reflection of the monotony of daily life. take e's to take more e's to go to work and punch your boss on monday only to repeat the cycle on friday to mechanised proletarian music, no innocent working class here, they have disappeared, only the proles remain. i mean industrial gabba is basically hard techno at 200 bpm.

Richie Hawtin was good though but I prefer the earliest Plus 8 stuff

especially final exposure vortex. unreal on lsd.

I do associate the hard, near-industrial purist techno with the trance though - they seemed in the same camp, supported by the same people - especially as trance then was quite cold, quite hard, quite fast. The fluffy Ibiza trance came a bit later I think.

possibly though I don't really think Dave Clarke and Sven vath really go in the same bracket. one made moronic music and played fairly moronic sets in 93-94, the other didn't... :) but they were calling dave angel trance at the time which lends credence to your point I suppose. I guess the purist industrial techno was trance, in the trance inducing sense, psychotic trance?
 

chava

Well-known member
You witnessed techno too early. There was a reset in 94/95 when the Chicago funk got back in through a.o. Relief Records, and new producers like Landstrumm/Vogel make stuff more danceable, slower, sexier, cooler. Even the girls started to like it! Techno got "street smart", the video to the mentioned Forklift track (with a perfect shuffling beat) says it all, no more stupid visuals or trance universalisms, now the reference was urban street life: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ojxre

I never clicked with techno before then. All the rave/hoover/hardacid is amphetamine junk to me. Fascinating, but I rather listen to punk, really.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I went to an Andy Weatherall thing at Morley up North once, 97 I think. Actually I went with some mates rather than by choice, and it was all slamming techno and industrial-sounding house with ice blue strobes incessantly flashing.

It was arresting and impressive for about 20 minutes but then, yes, it was just a horrible slog. Just horrendous, pounding, miserable.

why does horrendous, pounding and miserable have to be a horrible slog?

2000s UK soulful house (not garage, the songy stuff with soft beats that don't even sound like drum machines anymore) is uplifting and well, soulful to its adherents, but it's a slog for me, I don't really want to hear more than 2-3 songs in a dance music set and i much prefer vocal science like in jungle in dem 2 anyway...
 

thirdform

Well-known member
You witnessed techno too early. There was a reset in 94/95 when the Chicago funk got back in through a.o. Relief Records, and new producers like Landstrumm/Vogel make stuff more danceable, slower, sexier, cooler. Even the girls started to like it! Techno got "street smart", the video to the mentioned Forklift track (with a perfect shuffling beat) says it all, no more stupid visuals or trance universalisms, now the reference was urban street life: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ojxre

I never clicked with techno before then. All the rave/hoover/hardacid is amphetamine junk to me. Fascinating, but I rather listen to punk, really.

this doesn't make sense in the UK as I said because those most dedicated to the early hard acid and hoover brain bashing mentalism went down the landstrumm/subhead root, well into the 00s. the people who were more about some perceived idea of jazz-soul followed people like mr. c (seriously i should have been around to blow that cunts head off in 95) into the gloopy tech house.maybe it was different in germany/denmark I dunno.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
why does horrendous, pounding and miserable have to be a horrible slog?

2000s UK soulful house (not garage, the songy stuff with soft beats that don't even sound like drum machines anymore) is uplifting and well, soulful to its adherents, but it's a slog for me, I don't really want to hear more than 2-3 songs in a dance music set and i much prefer vocal science like in jungle in dem 2 anyway...

It doesn't, like I said it was when the tedium hit in, it became a problem. Same was happening in Leeds' only drum and bass club which I went to weekly from 96 to probably 98 sometime. The tedium factor of 2-step drum and bass taking over. It was awful. Dispiriting. It's why I ended up going to clubs that played old Motown records, it was fun, you could dance, the girls were great.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
Lol, Mr C's really getting it. Would have been cool to go to Subterrain at The End though. I hear that got pretty deep & twisted. Although I think Murf was the real one to catch there. And the original Clink St. Acid parties sound like they were absolutely amazing. Colin Faver etc

Anyone here ever go to either of these nights?
 
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craner

Beast of Burden
I always maintained it wasn't the No-U-Turn thing that killed it, that was dramatic and loud and exciting. It was the tedious 2-step drum and bass thing, the legacy of jump-up, plus the neurofunk thing, fucking Optical all that shit.
 
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