The Culture War

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
people are always going to sense an Orwellian aspect to any arbitary and inorganic language change imposed by Invisible Controllers and resist it. we've got lots of and lots of transgender people on dissensus btw and im all for it i dont want to force them to wear trousers and grow a moustache that's not where im coming from at all.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
There's a great deal which is going to have to be worked out in practice, over a number of years and will involve balancing the needs of various individuals and groups, trial and error, pain and recriminations, blood and tears. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise and ugly and artificial interventions into language will not hasten that process. Language is not our control code, we are not language robots and you can't reprogram us by rewriting the code.
 
Well yes one one the most irritating aspects is the idea that a solution has been found that fits, this works! preaching from a point of arrival when we’re clearly on like a journey man still making mistakes and loving each other despite them
 

entertainment

Well-known member
I know bro, imagine the horror of having to make a minimal effort to respect people's identities. so draining.

this fucking attitude, I swear
what on earth are you talking about? you don't think it's possible to feel drained by the staleness and drabness and endlessness of the ongoing debate whithout having something against respecting trans people in general?
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Personally speaking, I try and default to sex is biological and gender is cultural.

Have been the best man at a trans wedding (2006) and helped as security for that incredible day, have endured previous assaults on nights out with this mate and getting twatted by a steel bar round my head on one appallingly sick occasion (lucky to still be here). However, the feeling in the current climate is that if I deviate slightly off script in social and professional interactions it could get ugly quickly.

There’s a conservative US core that are never going to support let alone understand matters, so better to write them off and see what the rest of us have in common as people through empathy. Leave the idiots to their remedial echo chambers.

One of the main issues is the conservative, close-minded core in the US is truly vast in scale. Yes Europe has plenty of numpties, but US conservatives seem increasingly radicalised and love guns. I can not begin to imagine battling this gigantic wall of ignorance, specifically in certain states/regions and I’m not generalising the old Euro bias that Americans are “thick”. Rather, the levels of belligerence and intransigence over the pond seem to be increasing, like they weren’t bad enough previously.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
what on earth are you talking about? you don't think it's possible to feel drained by the staleness and drabness and endlessness of the ongoing debate whithout having something against respecting trans people in general?
In a way, it should be draining, if that feeling indicates you're really putting in serious consideration. Empathy is draining, no?
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Padraig's point about empathy's the crux of it really. I remember seeing some reporter hounding Denzel Washington about a rumour he'd voted for Trump and then segueing into a question about the Obama presidency and race relations and Denzel saying you can't force people to like and respect one another via legislation. It's an individual thing. People need to speak and listen to each other.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
that's true, but its also something of a sleight of hand in that we are being asked to be selective in where our empathy goes.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
and how you facilitate that speaking and listening is a difficult question. cities do it which is why people in cities are good and noble and kind and people in the moncultural suburbs and rural areas are suspicious paranoid bigots it might be easier to eradicate than to educate.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
what has been tried for several years now is, where conversation is impossible you introduce a character on the soap operas the little people watch and hope that will serve the same purpose.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
the problem at the moment is that strategy is being pushed back against as large numbers of people have begun to regard it as social engineering on the part of self interested elites.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
Arguably, yes. And it's being capitalized on, and encouraged, by a rival faction within the elite - your "war in heaven" - who've realised that an awful lot voters value cultural chauvinism above economic self-interest.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
To which liberals and leftists alike have little they can say in response that doesn't just make the problem worse by sounding like either patronising faux-sympathy for the brainwashed, or outright accusations of racism.
 

suspendedreason

Well-known member
Good to remember that minority communities are themselves highly divided on almost all issues in question. A lot of Latinos hate the designator "Latinx"; only 20% of the African-American community wants to lessen police presence in their neighborhoods; and the trans community is divided on almost every issue except misgendering. What happens is a small vocal subminority of a community makes claims to represent the whole, and then makes demands on the larger population based on this illusion of representativeness. Not always—probably not even usually—but many of the currently controversial issues are themselves highly controversial within the minority group in question.
 

suspendedreason

Well-known member
It's a killer rhetorical move on the part of that 10-15%: if you don't agree with us, you hate our entire group (whispering, "even though 80% of our group don't agree with us either")
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
well naturally. Power chooses this way of interacting with nebulous 'communities'. picking out a spokesperson and having them speak for everyone in that group.
 
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