Your Journey to the Alt-Right.

sus

sus

Moderator
Corpsey said:
When I think back to being at school when South Park and Eminem and Jackass came out, it strikes me that being into politics at that point was about the uncoolest thing imaginable.

And now it seems like it's cool for young people to be into politics. (Or is this just twitter?)

For my generation (may I be so bold) being "woke" was being awake to the fact that politics was all a big con job and you'd be an idiot to think it had any value whatsoever.

I suppose you'd be anti Bush, anti Blair, anti whoever else. The basic belief was that ANYONE who put themselves on that pedestal was self interested, self righteous and worst of all boring. This is the south park attitude (shit sandwich Vs whatever it was).

That was the era of "spin" of course, and maybe that helped create that feeling of politics being mutton dressed as lamb.

I've often wrestled (cursorily) with my more or less complete apathy in the face of politics, and thought it must be down to my essentially self involved character. I still think that's true, but perhaps it was something in the pre millenial (pre internet) air.
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Politics is for perverts and losers, it's true.
 
constant escape

constant escape

winter withered, warm
@suspendedreason do you think a leftist seed can be planted into some alt-right culture, and that it can actually bloom into a robustly informed progressive zeitgeist movement?

edit: perhaps even a movement that is recognizably marxist?
 
constant escape

constant escape

winter withered, warm
It wouldn't surprise me if the podcast culture for dirtbag left eventually leads to a more pronounced base. That isn't to say that it is probable, just that it would prove to have been foreseeable. The attractors are being constructed.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
What matters is changing the minds of young people, and the dirtbag left is exceptionally effective at that. See also their outsized influence on elites (educated, urban, wealthy). Do these effects take several decades to register? Sure. But it's the only way real change happens. Policy changes because people get replaced, not cuz they change their minds or operating procedures.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
constant escape said:
Both of those comments interest me greatly.

@suspendedreason on the dirtbag left: do you have any people in mind, or do you just mean the general energy?

@thirdform what marked the death, and what passes as the alt-right today?
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They died at their political formation with the unite the right 'rallies', when they actually had to be political in the proper sense. They overinvested Trump with Pinochet like characteristics, when in reality he's just a bit of a burlusconi like 1990s neoliberal character. The dems in this respect did some great work for the far right of the republican party (including but especially) the non-dirtbag wing of the democratic party. Ironically there was more chance of impeaching Trump when the republicans had control of congress, he was under their thumb for two years. But of course that would be political suicide. The alt right and all other factions of the far right are now experiencing existential terror and cognitive dissonance over the fact that actually, they have no industrial monopolist support and can only attract the epicentre of 'activists' (a disease anathema to Marxism) but also weirdly shared by the left. All that is happening now is they are fragmenting into a million pieces. Suits me perfectly to watch American kids cry.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
constant escape said:
It wouldn't surprise me if the podcast culture for dirtbag left eventually leads to a more pronounced base. That isn't to say that it is probable, just that it would prove to have been foreseeable. The attractors are being constructed.
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Sure, a professional activist base. that's never enough to get into power though.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
suspendedreason said:
What matters is changing the minds of young people, and the dirtbag left is exceptionally effective at that. See also their outsized influence on elites (educated, urban, wealthy). Do these effects take several decades to register? Sure. But it's the only way real change happens. Policy changes because people get replaced, not cuz they change their minds or operating procedures.
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elites are slaves to industry.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
policies are never ideational, they always come as an unconscious justification of alien forces above individuals, individual politicos, activists, individual capitalists and their political parties.

Like I said, laisez faire is an 18th century myth, no capitalism works like that in the 21st c. The progressive element of capitalism is it through its self-valourisation, negates the personality and views of the individual capitalist, reduces them to pure interchangeable appendage (expendable at all costs) or restricts them to the realm of being spectacle celebrity showpieces, a la Anna Kachiyan who has always smoked so much weed she's incapable of putting a sentence together, let alone working at a think tank.

Capital needs more proletarians than it does bourgeois, which in any case, with the advent of the world market allows the state to become manager of the total social capital.
 
constant escape

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Need to digest that a bit, but I think I got your points. From your perspective, are there any suitable cultures that can be impregnated by some progressive ideological seed? Broad strokes here.
 
constant escape

constant escape

winter withered, warm
And if we're talking about alien forces above individuals, some higher order scale of forces/mechanisms, there must be some optimal formations one can psychically take so as to be ever more conducive to these energies, no?

That would be why some are endowed with a more direct/potent ability to realize will on a grand scale, a factor independent from material wherewithal.

I happen to believe that that ability can be exercised by evaluating as many psychic states as possible, but that is an additional point of dispute.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Mr. Tea said:
But what if their success is Trump?
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then they've clearly misunderstood their father. Trump does not care about half the shit he spouts. He is anti-political in the truest sense, he's justthere to shake things up without changing anything at all. Let us remember that Obama deported more immigrants than Trump.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
constant escape said:
And if we're talking about alien forces above individuals, some higher order scale of forces/mechanisms, there must be some optimal formations one can psychically take so as to be ever more conducive to these energies, no?

That would be why some are endowed with a more direct/potent ability to realize will on a grand scale, a factor independent from material wherewithal.

I happen to believe that that ability can be exercised by evaluating as many psychic states as possible, but that is an additional point of dispute.
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The force is not a deity, it's a creation of manmade assemblages directly contingent on brute material power. Don't spend, invest. real capitalists are frugal across generations.

But again this will not mean you define politics, which in any case is irrelevant to you so long as your ability to increase your rate of return is guaranteed. You just need politics to do its thing, you don't *need it* in a personal capacity.
 
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