suspended

Well-known member
And it's the secular vs. religious demographic problem in the States at a greater scale—when evangelicals are popping out babies, and secular liberals go childless, or have a single kid, the population outcomes over generations go sour. It's even worse in Israel.

Similarly, when more "ethical," guilty countries abnegate power, the countries which remain to grab them are the exact leaderships we wouldn't want; the self-selection game means the democracies have all noped out of their responsibilities. All that's left is authoritarianism.
 

suspended

Well-known member
This is what I try to tell degrowth folks. Long-term thinking is always evolutionary, many generations. In the short-term, we might lower emissions; in the long-term, we might lose the world. Power is a Red Queen's Race.
 

suspended

Well-known member
Are you all convinced yet

Are you gonna start popping out babies

Are you gonna take up the evolutionary lens
 

suspended

Well-known member
There just will be more people, the same way in an arms race, there just will be more weapons. You can't stop producing weapons and hope your enemy does too. Human beings are weapons. Wars are won through economies.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Yeah any intentions that run contrary to incentive better have a profoundly comprehensive plan.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Especially when you consider how intentions that align with incentive really don't need such a comprehensive plan. They just let things work themselves out.
 

suspended

Well-known member
Yeah any intentions that run contrary to incentive better have a profoundly comprehensive plan.
Also any intentions that assume it's possible to coordinate everyone into performing the same virtuous, self-sacrificing action

Anyone played poker?

The more people tap out and fold, the more incentive there is for remaining players to stay in. They're up against one or two hands instead of five, six, seven.

The same logic holds with geopolitics, disarmament, and degrowth.
 

suspended

Well-known member
You could even manage to convince China, India, the EU, the US, Brazil.

All it takes is one bad actor, one defecting country like Russia that says—no, we're gonna keep building, keep growing, increase our birthrate, keep expanding and claiming power—and after a few generations, that country is a big problem.

Can you really expect the world to work that way? For no one to grab power? Utopian folly.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Also any intentions that assume it's possible to coordinate everyone into performing the same virtuous, self-sacrificing action

Anyone played poker?

The more people tap out and fold, the more incentive there is for remaining players to stay in. They're up against one or two hands instead of five, six, seven.

The same logic holds with geopolitics, disarmament, and degrowth.
Very effective analogy. Like what vague understanding I have of corporate tax policy. The more nations that hike up certain taxes, the more other nations stand to gain from appealing to those corporate interests. And intergovernmental agreements seem like nightmares.
 

version

Well-known member

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
The attractor will coalesce somewhere, and seemingly any strategy, in which success is predicated upon the eradication of said attractor, requires system-wide reach.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Hence the belief that policy ought to negotiate with incentive, nudge it into some kind of harmonious arrangement, rather than simply do battle with it.
 

version

Well-known member
Very effective analogy. Like what vague understanding I have of corporate tax policy. The more nations that hike up certain taxes, the more other nations stand to gain from appealing to those corporate interests. And intergovernmental agreements seem like nightmares.
Have you seen this story about Apple threatening to pull out of the UK over a lawsuit?
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Orban's implemented a policy of giving families interest-free loans which don't have to be paid back if they have a certain number of children in an effort to encourage this.
Perhaps there is something to be said for positive approaches rather than negative approaches. Rewarding the compliant rather than punishing the dissident. Although arguably they amount to the same thing, but again arguably there is something to be said, in certain cases at least.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Did literally either of you read my posts @Mr. Tea @WashYourHands

You don't get to decide what other countries and superpowers do. It doesn't work that way
Are you all convinced yet

Are you gonna start popping out babies

Are you gonna take up the evolutionary lens

This codswallop

You don’t get to reframe logical fallacies as evolutionary heresies

When you have children of your own i‘ll be all ears
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
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