suspended

Well-known member
znore says Finnegans Wake and The Crying of Lot 49 are artificial intelligences which have overpowered their creators. That certainly appears to be the case with capitalism, if it is an artificial intelligence.
Neoliberalism as "value capture"—a concept from C Thi Nguyen to describe when the simplified value system + priorities of a gamification take over the activity's previous, richer but implicit/unspecified value system.

E.g. when you start tracking your word count too closely when writing, or start gearing posts to reaction counts; when you get addicted to hitting your "10,000 steps"; when institutions begin measuring their professor's quality by citation counts; when universities begin changing their school to win in magazine rankings

Here it's the simplified scorekeeping of money that takes over more holistic but vague, undefinable values—cleanses us of ambiguity, subjectivity, judgment calls, soul-searching. Turns continuous functions into discrete ones.
 

sufi

lala
Neoliberalism as "value capture"—a concept from C Thi Nguyen to describe when the simplified value system + priorities of a gamification take over the activity's previous, richer but implicit/unspecified value system.

E.g. when you start tracking your word count too closely when writing, or start gearing posts to reaction counts; when you get addicted to hitting your "10,000 steps"; when institutions begin measuring their professor's quality by citation counts; when universities begin changing their school to win in magazine rankings

Here it's the simplified scorekeeping of money that takes over more holistic but vague, undefinable values—cleanses us of ambiguity, subjectivity, judgment calls, soul-searching. Turns continuous functions into discrete ones.
part of this is about quantativism, systematisation, (and the other part of it is about the problems money causes as a source of power, of course)
money forces everything to be quantitative, much like science, which only can recognise the measurable and quantifiable
this is why dawkins is such a prick
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
I never know how literally to take it when some people refer to capitalism as an artificial intelligence.
It seems like too sci fi a statement to be taken seriously but on the other hand its hard to imagine what would disqualify capitalism as some type of rogue intelligence
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
Capital shares the quality of language and consciousness as existing outside itself- never settled, always intending towards what it will become and changing the circumstances of that becoming on its arrival.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
So take the leap. I'll catch you. Optimize from the inside-out, not the outside-in.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
tumblr_n5264aIM1L1rf3wd1o1_500.gif
 

wektor

Well-known member
part of this is about quantativism, systematisation, (and the other part of it is about the problems money causes as a source of power, of course)
money forces everything to be quantitative, much like science, which only can recognise the measurable and quantifiable
this is why dawkins is such a prick
how does one reconstruct science as based around continuity then?
LEJ Brouwer should be given more attention perhaps
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
how does one reconstruct science as based around continuity then?
LEJ Brouwer should be given more attention perhaps
Interesting. Hadn't heard of him, but the wiki page associates him with intuitionism, which I also hadn't heard of. A conception of mathematics as a cognitive construct, rather than as some objective discovery.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Capital shares the quality of language and consciousness as existing outside itself- never settled, always intending towards what it will become and changing the circumstances of that becoming on its arrival.
Don't quite a lot of things evolve a bit like that, though? Art, science, mathematics, philosophy... Rich could probably make a convincing case for football, I expect.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I realistically don't see AGI on the horizon. As of now, seems to be just profoundly intricate pattern recognition that can be operationalized to clever ends.
Yeah, it's hugely overhyped and not approaching anything close to intelligence largely 'cos we don't actually understand what that is.. Pattern recognition can do a lot though.
 

luka

Well-known member
There just will be more people, the same way in an arms race, there just will be more weapons. You can't stop producing weapons and hope your enemy does too. Human beings are weapons. Wars are won through economies.
There just will be more people, the same way in an arms race, there just will be more weapons. You can't stop producing weapons and hope your enemy does too. Human beings are weapons. Wars are won through economies.
Also any intentions that assume it's possible to coordinate everyone into performing the same virtuous, self-sacrificing action

Anyone played poker?

The more people tap out and fold, the more incentive there is for remaining players to stay in. They're up against one or two hands instead of five, six, seven.

The same logic holds with geopolitics, disarmament, and degrowth.
the interesting thing is that it doesn't work like this. so there are clearly other factors and forces which delimit and moderate and regulate this zero-sum logic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Transformation_(book)
 
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linebaugh

Well-known member
Though I think the difference with something like science/philosophy/football is that each still have a set goal that limits their movement where as capital/language/consciousness only end is to keep moving. this is why some post modernists called what they were doing 'anti-philosophy' or the end of philosophy.

Art and mathematics though I dont know.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Imagine being a hip young philosopher and you and your buddies have just smugly declared "the end of philosophy."

Then 20, 30 years later you all meet up at some philosophy conference, and one of you says, over wine and canapés, "Hey, remember that time we declared 'the end of philosophy'?", and you all just smile sheepishly.
 
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