kids these days

swears

preppy-kei
Doesn't hitting kids instil the idea that violent behavior = authority, power, etc..?

So if you want to dominate a situation, you just twat someone.
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
children weren't walking round with knives and guns when i was growing up the uk and the school system was far more harsh back then.

Me and my mates all got knifes when we were 16. We felt well hard. It's just part of male coming-of-age: you are still living at home, wanking all day, and being asked by mum to do the dishes, but with your mates, you are pimp daddy with lots of cash, bitches and fast cars.

We were taught by very mild hippy teachers though. That must have been it. If we'd been smacked at school, I'm sure we'd all seem the error of our ways and swapped the knifes for bibles.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
The thing that struck me in the story about the kid getting killed on the motorway was not any sense that it was his parents' fault, but the immediate knee-jerk reaction that "there ought to be signs up and a big fence" to stop anything like that happening again. As if motorways are some sort of hidden menace! It just struck a chord with the modern obsession with DANGERS and HAZARDS which means everything has to carry a WARNING, on the grounds that people are presumably too stupid to realise that crossing a motorway on foot might not be a great idea. Kids never pay any attention to signs anyway, if anything it's just going to make the danger more alluring. And it might seem like a tenuous link to connect this with the smacking thing, but I think it's all part of a very pernicious and damaging trend towards treating kids as uniquely vulnerable and precious (while at the same time bombarding them with manipulative advertising from the second they pop out) which is having consequences as far-reaching as the breakdown of discipline in schools to childhood (and subsequently adult) obesity.

So that's my two cents. If I gave anyone the impression that I was indiscriminately "pro-smacking" then I'm sorry, that's certainly not what I think, any more than saying you support the availability of abortion makes you indiscriminately "pro-abortion". I support the right of parents to bring their kids up as they see fit, within reason of course, hence my point about the huge difference between admonishing a child, which is a hopefully very small but nonetheless important part of upbringing, and physical abuse. If you've got kids going to school with big bruises, that's obviously completely unacceptable, and it's very important that we have social services and police with the powers to intervene in these cases - but at the same time, I think it's a very dangerous path to go down if we could end up with parents being charged with assault for administering a basically harmless smack to a child when all verbal reasoning has failed, which would likely end up in a situation whereby the child could be taken into care, with the very real possibility of lifelong harm being inflicted as a result.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
Me and my mates all got knifes when we were 16. We felt well hard. It's just part of male coming-of-age: you are still living at home, wanking all day, and being asked by mum to do the dishes, but with your mates, you are pimp daddy with lots of cash, bitches and fast cars.

We were taught by very mild hippy teachers though. That must have been it. If we'd been smacked at school, I'm sure we'd all seem the error of our ways and swapped the knifes for bibles.

*bashes head on desk*

I give up. I really do.
 

bassnation

the abyss
Me and my mates all got knifes when we were 16. We felt well hard. It's just part of male coming-of-age: you are still living at home, wanking all day, and being asked by mum to do the dishes, but with your mates, you are pimp daddy with lots of cash, bitches and fast cars.

We were taught by very mild hippy teachers though. That must have been it. If we'd been smacked at school, I'm sure we'd all seem the error of our ways and swapped the knifes for bibles.

whatever. but my experience is the same as my mates who grew up in south london, kids did not carry guns and knives as a matter of course back then. you can come up with whatever polemic you like, they do now and they didn't then. i'm not even agreeing with mr tea or anyone else, just passing on an observation from my own experiences.
 

swears

preppy-kei
I did have very liberal parents, but I think I was quite a well behaved kid anyway, I used to just like to chill with my lego or draw spiderman. I think hitting kids makes them worse half the time.
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
kids did not carry guns and knives as a matter of course back then. you can come up with whatever polemic you like, they do now

How do you know that kids carry guns as a matter of course now? Do you do stop and search?

I'm genuinely interested. I think it is possible that a certain kind of youth is more violent than they would have been 20 years ago. But I am not sure.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
I made the post that started this whole rant/argument/slanging match, incidentally, because I'm pissed off with the increasingly prevalent attitude that the unfortunately sometimes necessary business of disciplining a child is indistinguishable from abuse, and I think people unable to make the distinction aren't fit to be parents, let alone lawmakers in the position of passing legislation to dictate how parents should behave.

A very large proportion of the kids who are having problems growing up and finding their way in life, and causing problems in turn for other people, have got into this fix through not having been taught that are boundaries to socially acceptable behaviour, and the importance of respecting themselves and other people. If anyone wants to take what I've said and turn it in their head into "a sound birching once a day is necessary to instil moral fibre", well that's up to them: grossly misrepresenting other people's opinions seems to be the order of the day on here, after all.

oh mr. tea, I got hit like crazy, and I'm still a junkie! how do you explain me??
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Doesn't hitting kids instil the idea that violent behavior = authority, power, etc..?

So if you want to dominate a situation, you just twat someone.

yup, you're basically guaranteeing your kid a lifetime of tawdry S&M fantasies
 

bassnation

the abyss
It is my impression that street violence has been declining for a while now on average. But there are always conflicting reports.

well, i don''t have a position on smacking really, but i don't see violence declining at all, at least round here. my mates dad got stabbed ten times in the stomach last week for telling some kids off outside his boozer in tulse hill and the same week one of the bar managers had his jaw broken in three places by some random nutter while he was boarding the bus. theres shootings every week. i walk past people who i overhear moaning that kids kept them awake running round the council estate shooting guns. seriously, i think things have got much much worse. but this is anecdotal and only based on my own experience in london.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
there are so many gunshot wound victims at the hospital near me that you have to wait in line at the ER for hours and hours and hours.

nevertheless, crime has STEADILY gone down by almost every estimate since the late 1970s
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
oh mr. tea, I got hit like crazy, and I'm still a junkie! how do you explain me??

Damn, you got me there! Since I'm having to explain things to people unable to distinguish between responsible parenting and child abuse, I can only declare you a medical mystery.

Edit: I realise, too late, that the obvious answer here would have been "a misjudged attempt to appear cool and interesting". Still, better late than never.
 
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vimothy

yurp
there are so many gunshot wound victims at the hospital near me that you have to wait in line at the ER for hours and hours and hours.

nevertheless, crime has STEADILY gone down by almost every estimate since the late 1970s

Over-all levels in America, certainly. But whether youth violence in the UK is increasing or decreasing is a different matter.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Damn, you got me there! Since I'm having to explain things to people unable to distinguish between responsible parenting and child abuse, I can only declare you a medical mystery.

how hard is hitting "too hard"? should you need stitches? should you need a blood transfusion?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Over-all levels in America, certainly. But whether youth violence in the UK is increasing or decreasing is a different matter.

this could be true, don't know

mr tea is now on ignore
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
how hard is hitting "too hard"? should you need stitches? should you need a blood transfusion?

I don't see how any sane person even needs to ask this question.

Whoops, I'm on Dissensus, aren't I? Stupid point, my mistake.
 
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