Benny B

Well-known member
There is very little rhythmic innovation in jackin, struggle to see how you could try and draw parallels with it to funky. Everything's surrounded by those tired drum patterns you could have heard any time in the last 5-10 years in Northern clubs. If it had funky style syncopation and big rude basslines then it'd be a different proposition but it doesn't. Tbh most of the bass sounds are quite hollow in jackin as well. But that's just my perspective, not trying to tell you what to like and what not to.

The MCs killed off funky really, all those skank tunes. It's a shame because it was great- and probably the last proper London scene- but it's gone now.

I know its just your perspective and personal taste but I do have to engage with this.

Datwun never claimed Jackin had rhythmic innovation though. He was quite clearly comparing the general vibe of Jackin' with funky - and in many ways he's right. Like funky its not a self-consciously innovative scene, though it does manage to create plenty of fresh sounds on the way through this lack of self-conscious fiddliness that has stifled alot of uk dance music and made it boring for me.

Also complaining about 4x4 drum patterns in a scene called JACKIN HOUSE seems to completely miss the point. You might aswell criticise jungle for having breakbeats. Everybody's obsessed with swing and syncopation but for jackin's purposes this is unnecessary for what it attempts to do. Someone in the jackin thread described lorenzo's 'Coke diet' as 'neck-snapping', and this effect relies on the rigid 4x4 beats. 4x4 is not the devil. For those that do like to mix it up, like DJ Q to take the best example, these straight beats can sound great mixed with proper garage and other stuff with broken rhythms, and this is part of the versatility and virtue of 4x4 for the DJ.

As for lacking rude and weighty basslines...I honestly don't know where to start as they are everywhere in Jackin, especially Lorenzo. Try telling the bassline on this doesn't slay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XW1eHRZ--U

Theres no way MCs killed off funky either - always loved Shantie, Majestic, Hot-S, Ranking, Dream, Topsee etc etc. In fact I would have liked to have seen this developed even more but Petchy's shows seem like a potential direction that went unfulfilled to me now. There were some good skank tunes too, I'll always have affection for migraine skank and even Head shoulders knees and toes - they were a part of the scene and they were fun, and anyway it was a fairly brief fad even if you hated them.

One more point - funky was alive and kicking for a good 5 years or so which is a long time in this game, so I don't really agree when Datwun says it might have had another few years left. i think it was just time to move on. And anyway, we've got azonto now:)


edit: sorry Slackk theres been about 5 posts since I started writing that
 
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datwun

Well-known member
Yup Benny B said it! Jackin's specifically not about rhythmic innovation, it's got a new bass sound, or at least, a bass sound which was hidden under layers of midrange in bassline and has now been given prominence at the forefront of the track - basically jackin is to speed garage what trap is to early 2000s crunk - it might not be a whole new paradigm but because of advances in technologies, tweaks to the sound palate, the jackin bass impacts your body in a new way.

Agree re: skanks tunes too. I love Migraine Skank! What a great idea, these little coreagraphed dances for the dance floor, that seemed to me like a social innovation in the context of the 'nuum.

But totally agree about funky DJs and producers turning to the most boring of 'deep tech' and that shit. What happened? Why are contemporaries of mine in their early 20s playing disco? Why at my uni did students think that an entire night of deep disco house at 120 bpm could be a good idea? Its perverse and perverted and I want it to die.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
Jackin's specifically not about rhythmic innovation, it's got a new bass sound, or at least, a bass sound which was hidden under layers of midrange in bassline and has now been given prominence at the forefront of the track...

Could you give some examples? Obv I heard your set last week and I check in now and then to mixes on this thread and I really don't hear a lot of b-line focused stuff... Would be very happy to be exposed to some...
 
The point I was making was that the whole point of funky is that it was based around very syncopated rhythms and divergence between the rude grime sounds and the saccharine (can't spell that) sweet vocals- it was very specifically a rhythm led scene and at the time seemed really fresh as a result.

Jackin, in comparison, is a straight 4x4 scene with quite cheesy vocals and ideas and that one bass sound that isn't even any good. Take donk/bounce/scouse house, swap out the "donk" for the hollow electro house bass sound and you've got jackin. That's it. That's the scene it's replaced. That's why I don't like it- fine if you do, but this idea of "scenius" and the idea that you can compare it to funky is ridiculous to me.

*

Nothing wrong with Migraine Skank or Tribal Skank but it led to hundreds of really terrible ones like Nando's Skank-
www.spifftv.com/video.php?id=449 and Are You Gonna Bang Doe (which was probably the death knell in terms of MC tunes).
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Could you give some examples? Obv I heard your set last week and I check in now and then to mixes on this thread and I really don't hear a lot of b-line focused stuff... Would be very happy to be exposed to some...

i actually think theres a fair bit of variety in the basslines. You get those weird quivery ones in stuff like Nick Hannams 'Homeless', big 808 subby ones in lots of the Lorenzo engineered tunes (Snapbacks and Tattoos, the Cause & Affect remix of Anhanguera's 'Beats are so legit), Narrows style dark warpers ('Naughty good girl' by Stikkyips and Lorenzo), Shorterz remix of 'We are the stars' by Lucy Love is pure junglist house bass a la Confetti/Nice n ripe. Really it runs the whole gamut of bass styles available atm but with that magic cohesion that is made possible by the 4x4 jack, always slave to the beat. I think Slackks choice of words: "Everything's surrounded by those tired drum patterns" is totally off point when you look at it like this.

But really if you've listened to the Marcus Nasty sets and most of the recs posted on the jackin thread and still don't like it, its probably not for you. There's really no way around the big cheesy refixes, you either love it or you don't.
 
Yeah I'm sure there is more variety to them than I'm necessarily aware of but the core ideas behind of it are just not what I want in music.

I'm sure it does the business in certain raves up North but every time I've seen a set of it down here it just killed the vibe completely. Admittedly I wasn't at Butterz at Cable but that marcus set in the bussey was one of the worst things I've ever heard. Found it a bit depressing to be honest but oh well.

I'll shut up now.
 

datwun

Well-known member
Take donk/bounce/scouse house, swap out the "donk" for the hollow electro house bass sound and you've got jackin. That's it. That's the scene it's replaced. That's why I don't like it- fine if you do, but this idea of "scenius" and the idea that you can compare it to funky is ridiculous to me.

Actually the scene it's replaced is far more bassline - the biggest producers are all ex-bassline heads, it's big in Leeds and Brum (and not in Sheffield) in a way that leads directly out of bassline house (and not niche). Although obviously there is donk/happy hardcore influence in the background - the north's always had a thing for pumpin 4x4 beats and big diva vocals - nothing wrong with that!!

Also, Marcus Nasty at Bussey was DEAD because the system was practically turned off, I was buzzing like mad and wasn't feeling anything because there was literally no bass whatsoever :/

Blackdown - the bass which really does it for me is the really hollow warp-donk one. It's the bass in 'Love to the Max', but also the bass of
A lot of Lorenzo tunes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxwT0cC3UM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOpT8BAqaqo

and it works really well on the deeper flex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSIzlwMSo9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTmSZnWZ44

But yeah, as Benny B says, there are loads of bass noises going on in jackin, some just hit like slowed down bassline, weird owl-noises, narrows-esq drug-wobbles fidgit/electro screeches, all teathered together over a 'neck-snapping' 4x4.


BTW - I feel sorry for derailing this thread from funky, if people want we can ship this discussion over to the jackin thread. Still, I suppose this thread is called Funky/London/UK House and it does feel to me that among people who dig it, jackin is hitting the same spot as funky did a few years ago. I think it's REALLY telling that Marcus Nasty, who pioneered the UK funky sound has switched over to jackin.
 
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datwun

Well-known member
Your defences are weakening :D
But nice to know you're feeling some of it! It encompasses a whole range from the pungently cheesy to the rough and ready, and some of it has that screw-face rudebwoy flavour that you and Dusk push, but is sadly very lacking in a lot of UK music at the moment.

And the bass sound - it's pretty different right? Not a paradigm shift, but an evolution from bassline, a new flavour. To be honest if it were just one or two tracks which sounded like it, they'd be big, but what I like about it is how memetic it is, how a jackin tracks sounds like a jackin track and there are loads of people exploring what's possible to do in that space.

I remember an old Reynolds blog post about how 'Where's Your Head At' was a great track but would be improved if it were to start a whole genre (Techn-Oi! I believe he called it, lol). For me jackin basically is Basement Jaxx expanded out into an entire genre - kitchen sink UK rough-house.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
Your defences are weakening.

ha, i'm not looking to fight this, I just call stuff as I hear it. Listening to the actual music... I recommend it *cough* Corpsey/Neurofunk assumptions *cough*.

Faithless refixes can still fully suck their mums though a scaffolding pole though. If you're using jackin' to justify yourself listening to Faithless pretending it's "cutting edge" or "vibey" or some shit you need to come out to yourself as a Faithless fan.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Faithless refixes can still fully suck their mums though a scaffolding pole though. If you're using jackin' to justify yourself listening to Faithless pretending it's "cutting edge" or "vibey" or some shit you need to come out to yourself as a Faithless fan.

The Faithless remix is great! Not sure I could count myself as a Faithless fan cos its the only tune of theirs I've ever heard. Its a tune that just had to be jacked what with all the references to smoking weed, 'sleeping is cheating' etc plus the ridiculous hands in the air hook.

Plus i was always a fan of this early Ill Blu-produced tune so i got over my squeamishness about Faithless a long time ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvkrnPHzv90
 

denoir

Well-known member
But totally agree about funky DJs and producers turning to the most boring of 'deep tech' and that shit. What happened? Why are contemporaries of mine in their early 20s playing disco? Why at my uni did students think that an entire night of deep disco house at 120 bpm could be a good idea? Its perverse and perverted and I want it to die.

Cuz demographics-wise they dont have much in common with funky or jackin audience?

I dont think the funky crew turning to deep/minimal/tech is a surprising move, some of them even used to play this stuff before funky appeared; the Circle crew has been pushing this style for quite a few years as well...you could sense this would be the sound they all jump on as soon as the hype dies out, audience lose interest and producers get all serious and grown up
 

NATO

Well-known member
If you're using jackin' to justify yourself listening to Faithless pretending it's "cutting edge" or "vibey" or some shit you need to come out to yourself as a Faithless fan.

One of the reasons I so enjoy Jackin' is because I get the impression that the people making the music don't come from that 'too cool for school' background where liking faithless or any other pop music has ever been a problem. I feel like the scene is made up of people who listen to radio 1 at work and then when they break for the weekend like to hear some of the same stuff but twisted into different shapes. I feel like it's ultimately unironic. I'm flapping around in the dark though so could be well off.

I don't really know what 'donk' or 'scouse house' is but I've come across tunes that I really dislike and think might represent it. These are the ones that have the bassline on the half-beat, same time as the open hi hat - I cannot fucking stand that, whether or not it's donk or scouse house related.
 
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NATO

Well-known member
Ha I'm on youtube now listening to a scouse house mix, it's pretty much what I expected. This kind of lowest common denominator house music is really popular here in China with people that live in the countryside. Something quite similar is played by middle-aged women here. Come evening time there are troupes of women who meet in a city squares/open areas etc to do some synchronised dancing for exercise. Often they play some really pumping tunes to dance to.
 

datwun

Well-known member
Something quite similar is played by middle-aged women here. Come evening time there are troupes of women who meet in a city squares/open areas etc to do some synchronised dancing for exercise. Often they play some really pumping tunes to dance to.

THAT sounds like the future of music.

EDIT: Jackin-Donk
https://soundcloud.com/dj-bia-y/bart-jack-halloween-party-1

Agree re cheesy refixes, obviously some of them take it a bit far, but some of that shit's genius.
A remix of Groove Armada's Superstylin? In 2012. Bloody hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1tWYV5eC2U

The cheese isn't what makes jackin 'cutting edge' though, that's the weird and wonderful stuff going on in the bassline. The cheese is what makes jackin the hier to 'ardcore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BaqVgo09bo - that sample is pure 1992!!!
 
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Roshman

Well-known member
http://soundcloud.com/allcaps_glasgow/kowton-tfb

 
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