Paper Route Gangstaz - Fear and Loathing in Hunts Vegas

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Are people up on this? I was initially wary b/c of the whole Diplo connection/Fader hype thing but it turns out my fears were unfounded. The rapping is, admittedly pretty average for the most part, but the production is amazing. The choice of samples is pretty much immaculate ("Born Slippy.NUXX", "Halcyon & On & On", "Soul Glo", "Palladio", etc.). Plus, and even better, they're used without any nudge-nudge wink-wink pretense to irony. The PRGz aren't the first to unapologetically mine 90s pop (and in this case, big name techno) for beats - MF Doom, though I guess it could be argued he's more on some like avant/irony tip, Dipset of course, and doesn't Wiley have a rather open love for SWV? - but you have at admire their sheer ballsiness to sample ANYTHING no matter how cheeky (I mean, the ****ing "diamonds are forever" song? "Blinded by the Light"?) and what's more, make it sound great.

Actually, and perhaps apropos of that whole Zomby Where Were U in 92/Burial's whole hauntology rave steez, they kinda remind me of ca. 91-92 ardkore. As best evidenced by this remix of "Rollin'" (the original "Rollin'", btw, samples Robert Miles - "Children" of all things), which is surely the greatest Southern hip hop dro/lean/purple take on ca. 92 huge shiny eyes UK rave culture that you've ever heard.

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some links
http://southernhospitality.co.uk/huntsville.htm - a free mix of PRGz track and some other hip hop out of Hunstville
http://maddecent.com/paperroute/ - Fear & Loathing in Hunts Vegas (on a you choose how much to pay ting)

Speaking of hip hop unironically recontextualizing "cheesy" (but obviously great) 90s house;
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Tanadan

likes things
Does anybody know what the slightly breathy female vocal sampled in the first vid is? It sounds like the same sample Loefah used in Life Dub (off his first EP for Big Apple records), which I love... :)
 

jambo

slip inside my schlafsack
It's Kirsty Hawkshaw / Opus 3's It's A Fine day as sampled by Orbital in Halcyon And On And On as Padraig said I think.

That song in the video is a bit boring though innit. Kind of flat, was expecting more from the '92 'Ardkore comparison.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
It's Kirsty Hawkshaw / Opus 3's It's A Fine day as sampled by Orbital in Halcyon And On And On as Padraig said I think.

That song in the video is a bit boring though innit. Kind of flat, was expecting more from the '92 'Ardkore comparison.
wull, I did say a take on Ardkore through the lens of Southern hip hop, hence more blunts/sipping cough syrup than doves & glowsticks, but it's the same feeling innit - "rolling rolling rolling ain't slept in weeks". It's more about the attitude to me I guess, something also like "No Way Back" - a celebration of hedonistic excess that is simultaneously a critique of the same, just that predawn feeling of melancholy.
 

jambo

slip inside my schlafsack
I wasn't going to say anything because I don't usually intend to comment on something just to say I think it's rubbish but I was typing anyway in response to T's question and that just came out. ;) Can't knock the comparison because that's just your pov but I was just expecting something else. When I think of 'ardkore I think of energy and collision, exuberance and rapid fire ideas, none of which is here really. So I would leave it at that but this is pretty awful on just about every level, maybe the original is better? But given the theme and the drug regime you describe maybe a sense of enervation and ennui is the intended effect. Do we really need music for that?

Sorry but fuck this shit man.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
When I think of 'ardkore I think of energy and collision, exuberance and rapid fire ideas, none of which is here really. So I would leave it at that but this is pretty awful on just about every level, maybe the original is better? But given the theme and the drug regime you describe maybe a sense of enervation and ennui is the intended effect. Do we really need music for that?

Sorry but fuck this shit man.
I wonder, do you know anything about the Southern hip hop lineage this stuff comes out of? do you listen to any hip hop at all?

again, I have to stress, I didn't say it was Ardkore - I guess the Zomby/Burial mention may have been misleading - in the sonics. again, dro/lean vs. E. perhaps post-Ardkore would be more appropriate. it's like a desperation to lose oneself in substances/hedonism even as doing so becomes more and more unadvisable/untenable.

anyway, I mean, whatever. if you don't like it you don't like it. to be honest though I think your critique is ridiculous.
 

claphands

Real American Hero
I wonder, do you know anything about the Southern hip hop lineage this stuff comes out of? do you listen to any hip hop at all?

again, I have to stress, I didn't say it was Ardkore - I guess the Zomby/Burial mention may have been misleading - in the sonics. again, dro/lean vs. E. perhaps post-Ardkore would be more appropriate. it's like a desperation to lose oneself in substances/hedonism even as doing so becomes more and more unadvisable/untenable.

anyway, I mean, whatever. if you don't like it you don't like it. to be honest though I think your critique is ridiculous.
Can you imagine what this guy would go off about if he heard a screw tape?
 

claphands

Real American Hero
I love the slow motion soundz/prg stuff. Really, I think it's a much better legacy to the Houston sound then the northside boys who are making it mainstream nowadays. Using that 90s sound and new agey choir samples just right just makes the tracks sound so lush and let's the MCs just drip their lines off into the mix. Their production doesn't need Diplo remixes by any means.

G-Side - Starshipz and Rocketz is hip hop aoty for me. "Hit Da Block" is the perfect mix of this sound with the early DJ Paul hypnotize minds stuff and the modern south via Houston.
 

jambo

slip inside my schlafsack
can you imagine what this guy would go off about if he heard a screw tape?
Go off? Drop off more like.

Listen, gonorrhea fingers, I don't know if padraig (u.s.) is comfortable with your assumed chumming up in some kind of imagined sickly idyll, maybe you know each other in (keeping it) real life, but it's an unseemly sight. Referring to people who say things you don't like to hear in the third person as 'this guy' = cowardice. This is a public board and things are here to be discussed.
 

swears

preppy-kei
Speaking of hip hop unironically recontextualizing "cheesy" (but obviously great) 90s house;

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I thought this was a bootleg when I first heard it, weird.
 

mms

sometimes
Although i get what you mean Padraig, the stuff sampled doesn't fit in with hardcore, its pop trance and cheesy pop takes on european dance music, stuff that wouldn't get played in raves, with the exception of robert miles, that was a big chart hit and got played at trance clubs in about 95, this stuff would get played in pubs and provincial clubs, while the hardcore continnum was spreading d and b and garage.

That track with fine night tonight is lush cos of it's woozyness, it's funny that guys are sampling electronic tunes, probably just sourcing things from old records in second hand bins etc.
Bringing the whole thing round Kirsty's dad Alan was in the incredible bongo band who did apache one of the most famous old school sampled tunes.

I wouldn't call 'what is love good', it's real barrel scraping eurotrash dance tbh.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
honestly all the people saying stuff like 'its hip hop on e', 'its the closest hip hop has gotten to rave' etc over the years have never really been convincing to me. i know there was one period when rappers kept talking about x and there were some mildly ravey sounds in the beats, but i seriously doubt any of these guys were drawing from dance music. its more just a result of the synthiness of R&B over the years since the 80s that happened there, and guys not wanting to sample anymore that made it happen. i know some of the sounds have been similar - in the case of some of the detroit guys, its def techno influenced and lil jon said he was into certain house presets which must have made everyone else go out and use the same sounds as him, but the way synths are used/played in hip hop has always been different to dance music. the southern stuff, which is the main catalyst of synths in hip hop production, has electro roots.

i hate the track which samples born slippy btw. it might be without the usual awful irony but its still a bit cheesy. and i can imagine its on there to still appeal to diplo fans as nudge nudge wink wink fodder.
 
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claphands

Real American Hero
Go off? Drop off more like.

Listen, gonorrhea fingers, I don't know if padraig (u.s.) is comfortable with your assumed chumming up in some kind of imagined sickly idyll, maybe you know each other in (keeping it) real life, but it's an unseemly sight. Referring to people who say things you don't like to hear in the third person as 'this guy' = cowardice. This is a public board and things are here to be discussed.
I was basically just seconding this guys point. I'm sorry that your criticism of the music posted in this thread had no substance.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Although i get what you mean Padraig, the stuff sampled doesn't fit in with hardcore, its pop trance and cheesy pop takes on european dance music, stuff that wouldn't get played in raves, with the exception of robert miles, that was a big chart hit and got played at trance clubs in about 95, this stuff would get played in pubs and provincial clubs, while the hardcore continnum was spreading d and b and garage.

That track with fine night tonight is lush cos of it's woozyness, it's funny that guys are sampling electronic tunes, probably just sourcing things from old records in second hand bins etc.
Bringing the whole thing round Kirsty's dad Alan was in the incredible bongo band who did apache one of the most famous old school sampled tunes.

I wouldn't call 'what is love good', it's real barrel scraping eurotrash dance tbh.
well sure, but you can't very well expect 20 something hip hop producers from Huntsville Alabama to be sampling some obscure '91 white label or for that matter even Altern 8 or whatever. plus, while Orbital wasn't ardkore by any stretch of the imagination surely it's doing them a disservice to call them "pop trance"?

and of course "What Is Love" isn't "good" if you mean good as in good taste and all. its unashamedly cheesing early 90s pop house a la C&C Music Factory. none of that stuff is "good". that's kinda the point anyways, those kinds of cheesy, terrible pop takes on "serious" dance music being sampled in an entirely unironic fashion. besides I thought half the appeal of ardkore to lots of people was that so much of it was so cheesy & disposable.

didn't know that bit about Kirsty Hawkshaw's dad btw, interesting bit of trivia.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Go off? Drop off more like.

Listen, gonorrhea fingers, I don't know if padraig (u.s.) is comfortable with your assumed chumming up in some kind of imagined sickly idyll, maybe you know each other in (keeping it) real life, but it's an unseemly sight. Referring to people who say things you don't like to hear in the third person as 'this guy' = cowardice. This is a public board and things are here to be discussed.
sorry, btw, I guess I was somewhat rude to you. it just kinda pissed me off, this sweeping dismissal of something's worth. but again, hey, your opinion, fair enough.

actually in general I'm kind of surprised at how much people here dislike it. and doubly so that the reason they dislike it is that it's too "cheesy" or whatever. it's kinda funny, cause I'm like the antithesis of one of those people who spends their time trying to find something of worth in Celine Dion or whatever.
 

mms

sometimes
well sure, but you can't very well expect 20 something hip hop producers from Huntsville Alabama to be sampling some obscure '91 white label or for that matter even Altern 8 or whatever. plus, while Orbital wasn't ardkore by any stretch of the imagination surely it's doing them a disservice to call them "pop trance"?



didn't know that bit about Kirsty Hawkshaw's dad btw, interesting bit of trivia.
sure ok not orbital, i don't like em though, but obviously hardcore and hip hop have lots of things in common and then especially jungle and hip hop in the uk forged transatlantic links, plus techno/house/electro and etc were made by the same or similar american black/latino people that made hip hop, and crossed over many times with it, so it's not a massive stretch that 20 something producers might be aware of music made by black and latino people coming out of their own country and neighbourhoods, rather than rather naff music made by english and europeans.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
sure ok not orbital, i don't like em though, but obviously hardcore and hip hop have lots of things in common and then especially jungle and hip hop in the uk forged transatlantic links, plus techno/house/electro and etc were made by the same or similar american black/latino people that made hip hop, and crossed over many times with it, so it's not a massive stretch that 20 something producers might be aware of music made by black and latino people coming out of their own country and neighbourhoods, rather than rather naff music made by english and europeans.
well, sure it's not out of the realm of possibility. I do think, though that you're overrating the popularity of electronic music in the States. the jungle/hip hop stuff seems pretty New York centric and more specifically like a mainly New York-London thing. I'd be happy to be proven wrong about that if someone could provide some examples, especially of any Southern hip hop/jungle links.

it's true that techno/electro share a lot of roots (I always took house to be more of a disco thing, not discounting the obvious interplay between Chicago & Detroit in the early days) but they've diverged pretty widely from each other since the mid-late 80s, not just in production w/the shift from drum programming to sampling (which, of course, has gone back in the other direction in the last several years) but also culturally. there's undoubtedly crossover, but I think it's limited, and I don't think there's much of a shared audience. how many kids do you think are bumping underground resistance and ugk? I wish there more, but not very many, I think.

as to your last point, so what? some naff white pop music has been popular with black people for a long time. phil collins, coldplay, etc. why the hell shouldn't they sample it? cause it's not black enough or real enough for you? not to mention the obvious that neither ardkore nor jungle was solely black; neither was/is hip hop.

I dunno - I mean, if you don't like something that's one thing but if your problem with is that they're not using authentic enough samples sources then that sounds kind of silly.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
i asked some similar questions a while back after some US hipster hiphoppers we had at our club played an absolutely disgusting amount of euro toss

http://dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=6894
I dunno, I can't speak to the whole Mad Decent/hipster rap thing cause it's not my scene but it the only place where dance music seems to touch the mainstream here is with populist mashup crap like Girl Talk and yeah, dudes like Diplo. as far as hip hop I think it definitely has something to do w/the machismo and just the hardness of the 90s insulating itself from "dance music" as being too gay or whatever, but that's just my speculation.

I mean there's pockets, mostly (if not all) in the obvious places - New York, Bay Area, Chicago, of course Detroit but they're pretty small and insular for the most part. definitely nothing like acid house in '88, ardkore and then jungle in the 90s, the trendiness of dubstep, or the quasi-mainstream appeal that real techno (as opposed to awful europop/trance) seems to have in mainland Europe & esp. Germany.
 
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