sadmanbarty
Well-known member
music can no longer be salvation.
no 'if you were here tonight' glimmering guitars.
that's very interesting to map actually. what emotional remits music is reduced to (or shifted to) these days.
Beyond Soul.
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music can no longer be salvation.
no 'if you were here tonight' glimmering guitars.
that's very interesting to map actually. what emotional remits music is reduced to (or shifted to) these days.
Am loath to post RBMA but this profile of Luigi Nono from our grand ayatollah is well worth reading, really excellent stuff and has loads of jumping off points for this thread.
https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2019/04/luigi-nono-communism-ww2-avant-garde-feature
https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2019/04/luigi-nono-communism-ww2-avant-garde-feature
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Rationalists ain't gonna get it. Facetiousness is the easy way out.
I don't think people understand my argument. I'm saying make bombs not love, I'm saying drop bombs not acid. I'm not saying soul will or is ever going to be impossible, I'm saying first we have to establish those connections. running away to the periphery ain't gonna fix that. the kids are all listening to esperanto pop! I agree that being progressive is overrated but my opinion here regards the progressive-conservationist dynamic means fuck all. how do we deal with the material reality we're placed in?
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Chante Moore's this moment is mine album is good because it is the realisation of the dissolusion of the vocal soul. there is no exagerration or not even a profound emotional impact. it just makes you feel cool and classy. nice and egotistical. the egotistical love song. perfect. a nice track for a good night out, maybe buy a girl a few glasses of champagne, do a bit of gak with the lads, go back home with a headache the next day and listen to rare groove on the pirates. that's the vague feeling approximating soul we have now. It's not 1970s and Selda Bağcan is singing her heart out to communists teling the rich journalist to go to the poor villages without water, schools or runways. it's the love song of someone who is gonna dump you three hours later. unrequited love is dead.
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pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
It wasn't aimed at you.
ra·tion·al·ism
/ˈraSHənlˌizəm,ˈraSHnəˌlizəm/
noun
a belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response.
"scientific rationalism"
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
music is increasingly pivoting towards manipulating stimuli for physiological rather than overtly emotional impact. skrillex, the rap trio who shan't be named, etc. are all physiological experiences/programming far more than they are emoting. they're closer to fairground rides or seizures.
pivotal moments include:
- the death of singing as rap was born
- the raveolution
- timbaland managing to turn rnb- the most soulful music- into an excercise of temporal distortion via manipulation of information velocity
other_life
bioconfused
"i am not a man, and i have no soul
and i don't worry about politics that i feel i can't control
and i only wanna fuck
and take a turn at trucks
and contemplate the opposite of everything i love
i'm sick of singin soul, and early modern soul
while the heartless fucks in indie bars are
singin about the sun
and they know bob dylan's dead
and the beatles will all be killed
and if you don't agree you can write a propechy
and expect it to be fulfilled"
- matt horseshit
and i don't worry about politics that i feel i can't control
and i only wanna fuck
and take a turn at trucks
and contemplate the opposite of everything i love
i'm sick of singin soul, and early modern soul
while the heartless fucks in indie bars are
singin about the sun
and they know bob dylan's dead
and the beatles will all be killed
and if you don't agree you can write a propechy
and expect it to be fulfilled"
- matt horseshit
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
is soul about maturity and a certain degree of convoluted emotions? untempered joy can't be soulful?
for example this is profoundly, potently emotional, but it's not soulful:
for example this is profoundly, potently emotional, but it's not soulful:
whatever.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
<iframe width="727" height="409" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gDEml_2V97g" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This, on the other hand, at least gesticulates to soulfulness in quality and aspiration (whether or not it's found, to the beholder)
This, on the other hand, at least gesticulates to soulfulness in quality and aspiration (whether or not it's found, to the beholder)
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Wrt: Brasil's traditional music going the way of the west.. I can't find it now but there was an interview with (I think) Joe Boyd where he was talking about the difference in African and South American traditional music. He was saying that in Africa they continually evolve and invent new sounds and get bored of old music quickly. In Latin America they seem to be more into keeping their traditional music alive. So all the stuff the dude from awesome tapes from Africa is pushing is basically forgotten and left to gather dust. While in Cuba, Colômbia, Brazil etc, many people are still partying to the classics. Sometimes really old ones. Obviously with exceptions, but it's a fairly accurate rule of thumb. They all embrace modern music too ofc.
When I was in Morocco last year I was delighted to see how their traditional music is kept alive and you can find rooms full of people of all ages singing along to songs that are sometimes hundreds of years old. The same can be said of Brasil. All ages are into samba and know the words and get true joy from singing and dancing along with it. I was just in a club last night wihh a samba band. Place was packed. People from 20 to 65yo there. All loving it, all singing along. I think this will continue as long as carnival exists.
There's something powerful about seeing a big group of people getting carried away, participating with their voices and bodies. Totally free of the over awareness curse so many people in this thread seem to be plagued by. This is something that gives me hope for humanity. Outside of the western bubble, there are huge populations of people who are free of this capitalist rooted mentality who are able to be transported just with the power of music.
Sure music only has so much power and if it was really going to change the world it would have done it by now. But I think its a shame to write off earnestness and sincerity and allow ourselves to resign to it all being over. Fact is, subversive music, whether it be Bob Marley, Jane's Addiction or Atari Teenage Riot, is important to have it there. It reminds us not to cave so easily. Not to give up without a fight. It frames the times.
Not sure if I rambled too far off the path with this post but the hangover is in full swing. As you were.
When I was in Morocco last year I was delighted to see how their traditional music is kept alive and you can find rooms full of people of all ages singing along to songs that are sometimes hundreds of years old. The same can be said of Brasil. All ages are into samba and know the words and get true joy from singing and dancing along with it. I was just in a club last night wihh a samba band. Place was packed. People from 20 to 65yo there. All loving it, all singing along. I think this will continue as long as carnival exists.
There's something powerful about seeing a big group of people getting carried away, participating with their voices and bodies. Totally free of the over awareness curse so many people in this thread seem to be plagued by. This is something that gives me hope for humanity. Outside of the western bubble, there are huge populations of people who are free of this capitalist rooted mentality who are able to be transported just with the power of music.
Sure music only has so much power and if it was really going to change the world it would have done it by now. But I think its a shame to write off earnestness and sincerity and allow ourselves to resign to it all being over. Fact is, subversive music, whether it be Bob Marley, Jane's Addiction or Atari Teenage Riot, is important to have it there. It reminds us not to cave so easily. Not to give up without a fight. It frames the times.
Not sure if I rambled too far off the path with this post but the hangover is in full swing. As you were.
can't speak for Brazil but in Turkey yes people are still singing hundreds of year old songs. they will never disappear. but the bands are not impressive to me. I'm sure you'll be blown away but i find them cringe inducing at the best of times. they have huge set ups like (multiples of all) davul, drum kit, saz, baglama, clarinet, violin, kemence, woodwinds, neys, etc etc. whereas prior to modern production and transportation techniques the music was much more direct. it was a saz and a davul/darbuka and maybe a spoon. in the black sea region it would just be a kemence and a darbuka. back in the day a folk set up would have a maximum of 5 people, mostly 2-3. and they would make a racket out of that. now they have 12-16 and it's like for channel 4 jamie oliver fans. 'beautiful soft sad turkish music' - turkish music was never soft until these commodity wankers got hold of it though. sure it was overwhelmingly sad and bitter but it was twangy and plucky.
But now it all feels like aural candy floss for right wingers. it's a fully institutionalised industry. it's no longer our music.
But now it all feels like aural candy floss for right wingers. it's a fully institutionalised industry. it's no longer our music.
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pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
See Pharaoh Sanders live and see if you still think this. Or some Gnaoua. Or some hindustani. With good enough musicians it's still possible.
and of course they didn't say let's all go back to the 1940s. that would have been positively progressive. they created a new age maximalism. of course people who aren't turkish think that stuff is amazing. We don't. but that just goes to show how much westerners sometimes value technical prowess over its cultural context, even when they abandon the supposedly rationalist western classical tradition.