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Thread: After the lockdown ...

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by luka View Post
    There's loads left to discover. The universe is as mysterious as it ever has been. More, in some ways.
    Weber talked about the lack of enchantment that comes with modernity, the drudgery of doing the same thing etc. But I dunno if he might have rethought some of this in the context of postmodernity, he was constantly changing his position due to new evidence. That's why he was quite interesting to read and not particularly well read. Like he's no one's favourite or top sociologist. Cos it's all slow creep, attrition, gradual decline , no revolutions, increasing bureaucracy, so in this way it's quite s k punk thesis I suppose. So what I'm saying is that this event that is going on, it has the potential to change up our system. Like already, we have daily government updates, we are effectively in a command, socialist economy

  2. #167
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  3. #168
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    Hungary certainly appears to be moving towards the more authoritarian (as with UK) - Orban is seeking to pass a law that will give him extra powers FOREVER (or at least with no built in ending). It needs four fifths of government to vote it through and they refused but if it's brought back to parliament - which it will be - apparently it only needs two thirds and his party is big enough to make that happen. He hasn't exactly got a good record, I fear for the results of this... maybe Comelately knows more?
    Possibly people retreat to what they know - more autocratic ones become more so. And if that person is the leader of the country then that country goes with them.

  4. #169
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  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdleRich View Post
    Hungary certainly appears to be moving towards the more authoritarian (as with UK) - Orban is seeking to pass a law that will give him extra powers FOREVER (or at least with no built in ending). It needs four fifths of government to vote it through and they refused but if it's brought back to parliament - which it will be - apparently it only needs two thirds and his party is big enough to make that happen. He hasn't exactly got a good record, I fear for the results of this... maybe Comelately knows more?
    Possibly people retreat to what they know - more autocratic ones become more so. And if that person is the leader of the country then that country goes with them.
    You pretty much have it covered. It's not unworrying but in all honesty I don't think Orban has much to fear from elections.

  6. #171

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    Thoughts here from a friend of mine are fairly on the ball

    There is a growing perception — a consensus even — that if we look after wages then businesses will be able to pick up where they left off once the coronavirus crisis passes. I wish that were enough. We are heading into a severe recession that will turn into a depression unless measures are taken now to avert it. We need to ensure that those affected by the shutdown are not liable in any way for rent or mortgage repayments during this period. And if we want businesses (including farmers) to bounce back afterwards, we need to tackle their involuntary outgoings as well. It is vital that affected businesses are also not liable in any way for rent, utility bills, or debt repayments, for the months they are shut. These measures are critical to ensure that businesses can indeed open up once the crisis measures are lifted, and that state finances are not put under more pressure than is absolutely necessary.

    To make an analogy, significant sections of the economy have been put into a state-induced coma so that our medical services can fight this infection. Countries across the EU, including our own, are purposely shutting down economic activity in order to save lives. In Ireland it means that there are thousands of businesses that cannot generate income, but under current arrangements they are being treated for the purposes of rent, debt and utilities as if they can and nothing has happened.

    The government response so far has been to defer payments, not to get rid of them. This merely straddles businesses with debt for the months during which they were told to shut down and not do anything. When the economy wakes up, we cannot pretend it generated the same income as before while it was under sedation. It is like charging each coronavirus patient thousands of euros for their treatment when they don’t have the income. It will simply lead to bankruptcies. And when hundreds, possibly thousands, of businesses go bankrupt or are unable to reopen due to lack of funds or weak credit rating, we will have a depression.We also have to remember that when the crisis measures end, we will still have to tackle housing health, and climate change.

    It is utterly insane that we would use up critical public funds today — funds we will need to address our significant social infrastructure failings and climate action responsibilities — so that landlords and banks can have a guaranteed 100% income during a global pandemic. Nor can we have workers and businesses using up their savings so that landlords and banks do not have to use theirs. On top of actions already announced by the government, it should introduce the following:

    - Full moratorium on domestic rents and mortgage repayments for people affected

    - Full moratorium on commercial rents and loan repayments for businesses affected

    - Full moratorium on utility bills for businesses affected

    - Legislation to ensure that claims for rent, mortgage, and loan repayments, as well as utility bills missed during the crisis, are not legally enforceable

    - Legislation to ensure credit history is not affected by missed payments during the crisis

    - Interest-free loans and overdraft facilities for businesses to pay suppliers and contractors

    If we do not act now and in this way, we will be facing even greater problems in the future.

    We must avoid businesses shutting down permanently because of debt incurred. We also need to avoid the full socialisation of these debts via state intervention. The suspension of rent, mortgage, and debt repayments would take a significant burden off people’s shoulders, and enable households to get through this crisis on the announced payment of €350 per week. The overall purpose of these measures is to push the debt of the coronavirus breakout into the world of finance, which is where the significant and almost unlimited support measures announced by the ECB will come into play.

    It is the role of the ECB — not hairdressers, restaurants, and gyms — to ensure that otherwise healthy banks and utility companies remain solvent. The ECB, for its part, has made it clear it is willing to honour its responsibilities. Debt is a creature of accountancy and the law. It has no physical presence but has a coercive power due to state enforcement of its mechanisms. Rent, for its part, is essentially parasitic. Both are tolerated in normal economic times, but in times of crisis it is folly for the state to privilege their profit over the survival of the real economy. We have been here before. We cannot do the same again. We need to introduce a debt, rent, and utility bill freeze and subsequent write-down for the coronavirus months, coordinated by government and the state, and tied into the liquidity response that the ECB has already undertaken.

    These measures are needed to ensure that people and businesses get through this crisis somewhat in one piece. They will also help to ensure that the state has the resources going forward to tackle the housing and health issues that dominated the recent election, as well as to ensure we can implement a green new deal that is vital to our future.
    By contrast, Head of the World Bank on Monday said

    Beyond the severe health impact from the pandemic, we should expect a major recession of the global economy.

    We are working to provide a fast response, utilizing all our available instruments. Countries need to move fast to boost health spending, strengthen social safety nets, support the private sector and counter financial-market disruption.

    Countries will need to implement structural reforms to help shorten the time to recovery and create confidence that the recovery can be strong. For those countries that have excessive regulations, subsidies, licensing regimes, trade protection or litigiousness as obstacles, we will work with them to foster markets, choice and faster growth prospects during the recovery.


  7. #172
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    Yeah that's what pretty much everyone here has been saying too. Apart from the kill grandma and get back to work renegades!

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