Well-known member
hmm . . . .

I like Blackdown . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I like Simon Reynolds . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

but which is better . . . . . . ?


(sorry couldnt resist)


Well-known member
i'd take this over blawan's acid or addison's electro any day




Tight but Polite


Well-known member
everyone should post replies from this thread that they think should have made it in there but were unfairly excluded.

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
In terms of people wondering whether it is even worthwhile/productive for people to raise complaints about music they don't like, there were two posts recently in the dubstep thread (when ppl were debating Skream & Benga brosteppin' at DMZ) that I found really insightful -
This was from Sick Boy:
'Being critical is always important. ... If we all just accepted everything unconditionally, there wouldn't even be such a thing as music scenes or cultures to even care about. Music cultures are propelled and sustained by debate'
& this was from mms:
'As ever, the reality cuts through and everyone is too busy affecting imaginary ideological standpoints to notice.'
At the moment I'm trying to learn how to achieve point 1 without slipping into the approach mentioned in point 2 - i.e. grounding any criticisms I have in the music and my response to the music, and keeping them in proportion to my response to the music. It's not always easy to do, but there you go.
(I know this is a slightly odd post, but I'm in a slightly odd mood today).


Well-known member
Yeah Reynolds seems to have cherry-picked the negative shots to buffer his argument.

This is what happens when you live on the moon and have never been to Night Slugz or a Oneman or Jackmaster live set.


For the record I wasn't questioning the importance of critism, just offhandedly suggesting ways to focus energies and help dissensians all get on...


Dear Simon,
if you're reading this, which you will, your bland argument holds water... if you throw away all the good/rude/non tepid records.

Maybe the good ones are outnumbered, but isn't that how it always is anyway?

Love martin


Well-known member
Yeah agreed I have this argument with mates down the pub...

1000 shit soundcloud tunes = 100 high stack of shit white label tunes

It is up to the good selectah to be the filter. The signal to noise ratio in bass music is certainly strong enough to gain something from.

Reynolds view is still important to me personally, but I do have a problem with how you can absorb this music via proxy like you could with rock. Because blog mixes or youtube clips don't do Ramadanman's sets justice for instance. The club soundsystem is intrinsic to the Hessle/808/bass music sound. At the time when Simon matched ketamine to dubstep was a classic fail that would have been avoided if he had been in the clubs.


Well-known member
my computer speakers have nuff bass trust me - got one of those jellyfish-glass floor level sub-woofer jobs

ramadanman is great

a more serious point, though:

i've noticed that people have absolutely no problem with people offering comments when they're based in Australia, or other remote-from-the-scene locations, when those comments are positive

no problem at all with positive comments that are based on YouTubes, soundcloud clips, MP3s of dj sets

BUT when it's negative comments, then people will draw for "you have to be there", "you can only judge if you've heard it in the club, through a big system" counter, to discredit the argument...

which is a tad inconsistent !

anyway I concur with Man Like Ory: if you've got 20-plus years of going to clubs under your belt, it leaves you with a pretty sharp sense of how a track would impact through a big system
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After 20 years of going to clubs, you aught to have a basic understanding that a waveform sounds completely different through a 5k rig, particularly if it has a lot of energy and voltage in the bottom octave as this music does. The fundamental difference in the experience would be intensified by the shape of the room and the diffusion of the sound amongst the people enjoying it, aka the ravers. All of this is such an intrinsically different experience that it might make you a)enjoy music you don't listen to at home, and probably never could enjoy at home b)intensify the enjoyment of music you already enjoy at home. I don't think you can discredit the importance of set or setting in arguments about club music.

john eden

male pale and stale
I agree - and I also think it's wrong to just judge music by the waveforms. It is a social process.

That is one of the reasons I don't really write about dance music any more.