Thailand

four_five_one

Infinition
1000 people trapped inside temple for over a day (was supposed to be a refuge) escape this morning. They were pinned down by snipers - likely right wing vigilantes - in a military controlled zone. Ten dead.

What is becoming clearer from speaking to various sources is that red shirts are highly unlikely to have started all those fires (some perhaps, but not the majority). Military was complicit in the fires starting.

In other news, Michael Yon seems to be part of the cover up operation... he's friends on twitter with an extreme right wing fascist PAD soldier. Why? They must know each other from before... Michael has been to Thailand before. Interestingly, on Michael's Facebook page, my slightly dissenting comments were immediately deleted, yet kooky conspiracy drivel (Thaksin was behind it all... change the record, please) is allowed to stay up.

I can't completely commit to this analysis. The truth is murky. However, if Thaksin did order the burning, it would benefit him in no way whatsoever. Also the buildings burnt all belong to his friends. And the TV Channel that was burnt is the most sympathetic to the red shirts... no way they'd single it out.
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Michael Yon thinks this is hilarious: http://bit.ly/cOKL1Y -- his latests "reports" have been that and the fact that "Tampons are hard to find in Bangkok". People on his FB page love it, saying "please tell the truth about those terrorists that love Thaksin, not our dear King"... he's blocked me from his comments. Surprise.

In real news, some actual journalists (and very brave I might add) are in Thailand. Andrew Buncombe is pretty pissed off at the Thai government after being shot by their troops: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ing-bullets-at-a-buddhist-temple-1977647.html

"Precisely which positions the firing was coming from was unclear and why the troops would be shooting so widely, with so little caution, was unclear. Was it coming from snipers or from the regular troops? It seems almost certain it was coming from the troops. And who within the chain of command was ordering troops to fire so recklessly, so close to so many people, the vast overwhelming majority of whom were unarmed, unthreatening and who – as they had been asked by the authorities – had just left their place in the city centre. Had they had an opportunity to leave, safely, then they would have. Everyone recognised this was the end of their struggle, or at least this stage of it. Pressing, vital questions need to be answered by the highest levels."

Haven't read the comments but I'm sure many are saying he's lying and paid by Thaksin. Just like "Red Rivers" - Dan Rivers from CNN - is critized for reporting the death toll. That's right, people don't like it when FACTS are used. They prefer Michael Yon tripping off his head and rambling on about tampons, miles away from anywhere where anything is going on.

Here are the awesome array of "terrorist weapons" the army found: http://twitpic.com/1pb8lg/full
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Federico Ferrara:

Here are some comments I offered in a short email interview with a Reuters correspondent in Bangkok.


1. What happens from here. Do the red shirts go underground with their leadership now detained (or in the case of Seh Daeng, killed)? In some ways they had very much a top-down leadership structure with the main leaders rotating on stage almost daily to rally their groups of supporters. Now with that structure lost, can they continue to mobilise in the way that they have in recent weeks? Or are they such a grass roots organisation that they can simply continue with their leaders locked up?

I did read some speculation that the movement will go "underground" but I think it's premature to speak of this particular outcome. The Red Shirt movement at this point has no reason to do anything but stay well "above ground" and continue to pursue its democratic agenda in a peaceful manner. There could be a bit of a lull in their activities now, but I would expect that if the government keeps their leaders in jail (demonstrating obvious double-standards, compared to the kid-gloves treatment afforded to the PAD in the wake of the airport occupations) it won't be long before this turns into another cause célèbre. The only scenario where I can envision the movement going clandestine is if the government unleashes the kind of paranoid wave of repression that some observers fear (similar to what happened after the 1976 crackdown). But it's simply too early to tell.



2. What does this mean for the Puea Thai Party? Will they be emboldned by the violence in Bangkok or discredited by the unrest, particularly in the north and northeast?

My view is that the UDD and Peua Thai are most vulnerable to losing some of the support they enjoy among middle-class voters in Bangkok and the Central Region. In the North and the Northeast, I don't think that either the UDD or Peua Thai will suffer that much. The people in the provinces aren't likely to shed any tears for the fact that some rich punk in Bangkok can no longer shop at CentralWorld when dozens of people "like them" lay dead at the hands of the government. If anything, those in the North/Northeast who already sympathize with the Red Shirts will likely react with justifiable disgust at the sight of upper class and upper-middle class citizens/media in Bangkok who are making such a scene out of mourning the loss of a shopping mall while they continue to shrug off (and in some cases celebrate) the murder of 80 people.



3. What does this mean for Abhisit. He now in some ways is tarnished by being so closely involved in a bloody crackdown that has cost many lives. Does that hurt him? Or is he seen as a leader who restored order to a capital under threat protesters whose demands began to be seen by many across the country as unreasonable as the days wore on?

On the issue of Abhisit, I believe that what I said a few days ago still stands. To paraphrase the observations I offered to you on May 16, my guess is that Abhisit is finished already, as he is irreparably tarnished by the brutality with which his government dealt with these demonstrations-- not to mention the deluge of lies it has told to slander its opponents or cover up its own responsibility for what may well turn out to have been (based on official figures at least) the worst massacre of pro-democracy demonstrators in the history of Thailand. I said before that I thought Abhisit would be thrown overboard when his patrons switch from crackdown mode to "reconciliation" mode (of course, by "reconciliation" they only mean restoring the lumpenproletariat's long-lost acquiescence). Abhisit is now too spent a force and too polarizing a figure to offer any hope that he can successfully carry out this (or indeed any kind of) "reconciliation." That said, it's anyone's guess when exactly he will be forced/pressured/allowed to leave office. Some say he will be gone soon. Others think the Constitutional Court will force him out (maybe in a couple of months). Others still maintain that it would be too messy/risky to change a government now, so he will stay on as a lame duck (more like a dead duck) until the military re-shuffle is completed. There are good arguments in favor of each of these scenarios, so I'm not sure exactly how this plays out in the near term. Regardless, he is done. At this point, he is a mere placeholder.
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Interesting to compare this Thai newspaper's take on the temple attacks, with The Independent's... pretty much a lesson in propaganda and disinformation:

"Col Sansern also said that there were attempts to attack protesters taking at Wat Pathumwanaram, in Ratchaprasong, where more than 5,000 red-shirts took refuge on Wednesday.

Six bodies were found inside a Thai Red Cross Society tent inside the temple grounds, he said.

According to reports, the victims were killed by war weapons as they tried to leave the temple for Pathumwan intersection, where the CRES had prepared buses for protesters to go home, Col Sansern said.

It was believed they were killed between 5pm and 6pm on Wednesday. Security personnel and police were still unable to enter the area at the time, he said.
"

It clearly tries to suggest that the red shirts were shooting themselves. Just glad international journalists were there to document it.

"In Bangkok, there have been attempts to set fires at 39 places including government offices, private properties, television stations," Col Sansern said.

Efforts to put out the fires had been hampered by gunmen attempting to attack the firemen, he said.

Col Sansern then showed a video clip showing red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikua telling protesters, "Burn them, brothers and sisters. I will be the only one taking responsibility."


The Natthawut speech they're showing is a very, very old speech. And it's taken out of context. He actually says: "if there's another coup, burn them, brothers & sisters."

But this makes it sound like he's just ordered it to happen...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/178550/more-red-leaders-surrender-as-riots-continue
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Distressed Thai woman on Facebook just asked Michael Yon "Can you tell me what to think? I really don't believe this."

No one believes anything CNN says even if they quote the official death toll: One soldier dead, shot by his own side. 80, almost certainly unarmed (unless you count fireworks & the like) protesters. << That's "red propaganda" One red I was speaking to today was so worried, he even thinks he might end up as a refugee... Most of them more scared than angry atm, I feel. I am almost hoping more symbols of decadent capitalism get trashed (not really but would almost be justified, would it not?). Screw them. Let the elites keep Bangkok & the south and the rest of the country can have its own politicians and politics. But then... no rice growers, no servants, no sex workers, no soldiers...

Is there a man in a white shirt with an M-16 at 0:11 here: ?
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Linking to this article in Thailand could get you jailed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...narch-whose-silence-is-deafening-1979998.html

While the men with the M16s sat outside my door yesterday I telephoned a Thai lawyer friend and asked him, rather naively, whether the soldiers had a right to go through my things.

“They can shoot people on the streets,” he pointed out. “They can certainly search your hotel room.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7133440.ece

This is a great read even for the general political reader, explains a lot: http://www.khikwai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/VERYTHAI.pdf

Deals with cultural attitudes towards democracy etc.
 

four_five_one

Infinition
That's it, reds are worse than sex offenders (& so is Red Rivers): DAENG RIVER why he soooooo bad? Red are sex offenders as well as terrorist uneducate thug nak leng gangster violent buffalo water lizard ship is missing well guess kill them alll!!!!!!!!!!! daeng river must die!!!!! he is worst than sex offender!!!!! http://www.bangkokpost.com/life/education/37609/breaking-news

"satire":
Professor arrested without charge: http://blockmeifyoucan.blogspot.com/2010/05/blog-post_23.html (he is a socialist... guess they thought he'd suddenly turn into Subcommandante Marcos)

Independent journalist shot inside temple (paid off by Thaksin to lie about it):
Andy Kershaw pinned down by sniper (another Thaksin lackey!): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article7134118.ece

Uneducate "red student" attacked by righteous Padshists who love the King! - http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=2010052116192036

Meanwhile if you even mention this Daeng Siam group, you'll land up in jail... curfew still in place, designed to make sure people are home while they get searched and interrogated.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
oops, you are, even...

what is going on w this professor, four_five_one? that was mentioned earlier elsewhere.

is he going to present himself to the authorities tomorrow, yes?

madness.
:slanted:
 
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