Vinyl dying (for DJ's)

[wise]

Once you're not mixing it's all about 'the show,' something we noticed in the US when we came with our London preconceptions like the value of accurate mixing over visible performance & use of the mic etc

Back to the performance eh?
Give me a faceless DJ and people dancing with each other, over everyone staring at the 'show' on stage anyday of the week.
'Shows' make clubs like gigs, lots of crossed arms and nodding, not enough dancing

 

[Benny Bunter]

I agree. The best nights out I've had have been dancing in a circle with mates to hip hop, RnB and pop chart fodder played by an anonymous DJ. I think its weird being on a dancefloor with everyone facing the DJ, its better if they're just tucked away in a corner somewhere. Its half the reason I don't really bother going to see 'name' DJs anymore cos everyone just stares at them, whether they're doing anything visually interesting or not.

 

[Sick Boy]

Back to the performance eh?
Give me a faceless DJ and people dancing with each other, over everyone staring at the 'show' on stage anyday of the week.
'Shows' make clubs like gigs, lots of crossed arms and nodding, not enough dancing

Oh, god. I didn't even realize people did this until I went to go see DJ Shadow do a concert. I got involved in a tense situation that almost escalated into a physical fight when some moron started giving my tall friend some grief about moving because this moany punter "couldn't see." Remember that animated youtube video that parodied dubstep by showing a load of people in a room standing stock still and nodding? That's not electronic music crowds... that's rock crowds!

 

[Corpsey]

I'm a social retard with deep-seated issues around enjoying myself and so I hate dancing in circles with people. It makes me feel uncomfortable. Unless I'm on MDMA or very drunk.

This is why I prefer dark clubs - it helps me lose myself in the music more.

Obviously if I'm at a club playing the Baywatch Theme Tune and Rhianna tunes I prefer the club to be well lit so I can perv on girls from a safe distance.

Anyway, people facing the front doesn't = people standing still. I quite like that facing the front set-up. I miss that worshipful attitude I used to have to DJs, even though in retrospect a lot of those DJs were shitcakes.

 

[pattycakes_]

couldn't give less of a shit about what a dj uses. and i'm pretty sure 90% of people who go to clubs don't either. they just want to have a good time. plus the ones who are there to just have a good time usually spend more cash at the bar compared to the beard strokers complaining about the sound quality in the corner.

things change, and yeah, in many ways vinyl is great, it's just time to move on. or put your own night on!

 

[Phaedo]

I think people facing a DJ is good. If you go to a club to see one of your favorite DJ's then you probably want to see them. Plus the fact some people (me included) might want to see them mix. Its cool that everyone faces the DJ and there's a interaction between them and the crowd. If theres no face then someone might as well stick a mix on. Obviously it can go too far though.

I guess if you just go out to have a good time and dance (and nothing else) then none of what a dj uses or seeing them ect. matters. But plenty of nights cater for people like that though. Sad music nerds want more though.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Im only a sad music nerd when I'm at home. When I go out i want to just dance and have a good time and couldn't really care less about trying to figure out what the DJ is doing with his hands. I remember seeing some footage of Skream at FWD waving his dubplate around his head and the crowd was lapping it up, but I thought it looked quite ridiculous personally.

 

[Corpsey]

I don't really give a fuck about what the DJs doing (except the stuff I can hear). Never been one of those both-hovering nerds. I hide in the crowd so it looks like I'm a normie, while secretly I'm taking mental notes about every hi hat.

But having a focal point for the room can be good, it can connect a large crowd in a way that everybody dancing in circles with their mates does nahht

 

[wise]

I don't think i've ever seen a DJ do anything visually interesting, watching someone mix is like watching paint dry.

I didn't necessarily mean dancing in circles with your mates (though that can be great too) I'm socially awkward as well so I guess i'm talking about the drug experience really, but the best nights for me are when there's some small level of interaction with other people in the club who are also really enjoying themselves (this usually indicates a good vibe).
I think this kind of thing is reduced the more the emphasis is on 'watching' something at the front. Maybe I need to go back to attending small nights with no name djs, i'd probably have more fun.
When I started clubbing I didn't take any drugs people danced with people they didn't know and no-one got aggy, there were no big DJs just residents, each DJ just mixed into the last tune of the previous ones set so everything just flowed.
I miss that.
None of this stop start - big tune - play for 10 seconds after the drop then rewind bullshit. --- end of moan

 

[Corpsey]

I quite enjoy watching this

generally speaking though you're right. Thing is I don't think 90% (or more) of ppl facing the front in a club/rave are looking at what's going on at the front. They're just worshipping the sound of the universe singing itself thats coming from the speakers.

Isn't there something exciting about being part of a big crowd all genuflecting at the altar of Paul Oakenfold?

I remember the first rave (if you'd call it that) I went to in Nottingham, one of the highlights was standing on the balconey of Rock City and watching everybody below (all facing forward) going absolutely mental when a tune dropped (oh and all the ppl on the balconey too).

Suddenly I miss getting twatted and going to cheesy DNB nights

 

[wise]

They're just worshipping the sound of the universe singing itself thats coming from the speakers.

Ok i'll give you EZ, and you're quite right about the rest, I don't really have a problem with people facing forwards, I do it too of course. It was more the idea of a trend of 'performance' being born from DJs not needing to manually mix anymore. I've seen youtube videos of people playing APC's/MPD's angled forward so the crowd can see them. Frankly it was wank, kind of on a level with someone playing a Keytar solo in the eighties.
Live sets in a club are fine as long as they function like a DJ set (Shackleton being a great example) I don't want to see people 'performing' (except for MCs)

 

[Benny Bunter]

Last weekend I was at some cheesy club and apparently I went totally mental when 'This is how we do it' by Montell Jordan came on, spilling beer over all and sundry and grinning like a buffoon. Show me love never fails to set me off as well.

Basically I've become the sort of philistine that I used to sneer at a few years ago when I used to go to serious techno nights. And I'm much happier for it I've managed to totally compartmentalise my music geek persona (at home in front of a laptop) and my cheesy fun-lovin' persona (when I go out drinking and dancing with mates).

This is starting to get seriously OT though

 

[Corpsey]

oh yeah dance 'performances' (shudder)... it's that old insecurity complex DJs/producers have about dance music not being 'real' music...

live instruments used to recreate previously PC-produced music is also a bad idea generally speaking.

 

[wise]

My top moments last night were definitely the massive US house tunes (Deep Inside, etc) Loefah finished his set with one, I can't remember the name of it but it's one of those HUGE classics, made me grin like a loony. The production on those tunes is amazing, they're so perfectly put together, unfortunately it made all the Swamp81 stuff sound even more turgid and dull.
After that I just wanted someone to play a House anthems set and blow the roof off didn't happen of course....

 

[pattycakes_]

Show me love never fails to set me off as well.

Basically I've become the sort of philistine that I used to sneer at a few years ago when I used to go to serious techno nights. And I'm much happier for it

A

After that I just wanted someone to play a House anthems set and blow the roof off didn't happen of course....

Men

when i first got into electronic music i thought 4/4 was boring as fuck. now i listen to/make house more than anything.

 

[muser]

I think the most damaging thing I've noticed from people trying to bring out a performance aspect in sets is that it means that they start focussing all their attention (in some cases not all) on making everything "live" and visually interesting, and not on making or searching out for good/interesting tunes. The ones that can achieve this generally seem to be the ones that probably make their tunes almost completely live anyway, otherwise it seems all the energy ends up going into the "live" sets and not releases.

 

[muser]

thats refering to artists doing it specifically though messing about with their own tunes etc. When DJ's are just playing tunes with loads of MIDI gear it just seems a bit showy and like they are compensating for something, when people are too worried about looking like they are doing nothing so add on aload of interativity for sake of it. Generally just makes the sets boring without any flow.

 

[wise]

I don't think it's so much to do with 4/4 as it is to do with incredibly well constructed and produced tunes where all the elements work together to uplift you and make you dance like a goon.

The older I get the more I enjoy big, full vocal tunes for some reason.

Anyway this is all getting quite off thread.

I don't really think vinyl dying out is that big a deal, it is inevitable, and much as I love the feel of controlling a proper record deck (whether with real vinyl or control vinyl) it's days are numbered.
However there's a lot more to playing a good set than being able to hold a beatmix. Programming is vital, how and when you play certain tunes and and at what point you blend them etc are incredibly important to building up energy and making a set greater than the sum of it's parts.
These things are independent of the carrier format of the music

 

[pattycakes_]

just to add then that yeah the actual 4/4 part is irrelevant but just what house music does in general which happens to be predominantly 4/4 based is really where its at for me too. which would have been hard for my 17yo dnb head mind to imagine. when i said 4/4 i really just meant house.

anyway back on topic

yeah, it's the feel of the vinyl for me over the sound quality. this is why control vinyls are great. but this is really only for the dj to get anything out of. if a dj plays better with vinyls because of the way it feels and responds then go for it.

it's a bit like the analog vs. virtual synth debate. personally, i think it boils down to the feeling of the instrument over the sound (especially when the parts actually get put into a mix). a synth that feels chunky and responds in the way analog does will most likely inspire you to play and explore it more, which may or may not bring out a better performance. imo this justifies having one (if any justification is needed). but if you can find yourself a nice virtual control surface and manage to make yourself some dope patches with a vsti then we're in no brainers-ville.

 

[Phaedo]

Yeah just to clear up i don't think me or anyone else consistently watches a DJ mix for their whole set. That would be weird lol. Corpsey summed up what i meant.