Twees're Good (except they're not)

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
B&S are almost definitively twee. Clever and occasionally dark as well, but certainly twee. If what we're talking about doesn't include Belle and Sebastian then "twee" is the wrong word for it.

Again, if we're going with the computer_rock / Eagleton definition then we need a new word because that's got bugger all to do with twee in any existing sense.

Not sure, although I think you're right that 'twee' isn't really what we're talking about on this thread. I would say B&S have the form of tweeness, but none of its (lack of) content, but obv a lot of people would call it twee, in the same way as they'd call the Smiths definitively miserabilist (though that is obviously a gross simplification when you sit down and listen to the records). I'd say they were consciously subverting tweeness - can you really talk about Arab Straps in a twee record?
 
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comelately

Wild Horses
Is this worse than people who lead basically safe, comfortable lives getting a vicarious thrill out of listening to gritty urban music full of gun boasts and death threats?

Yes, or at least to the extent that one is escaping the problems with one's 'basically safe, comfortable life' rather than belittling the problems illustrated by the 'gritty urban music'. I'll take Michael Bolton from Office Space over these twee t**ts. It's one thing to attempt to escape your own problems, another to belittle the problems of others.

Julian Glover returned to the Guardian (he is now Cameron's chief speechwriter) the other day, not to troll of the joys of smashing the state, but of 'preserved lemons'.

I watched Alex James' (inevitably mentioned in the Quietus article) videos regarding the suit he designed for Aubin & Wills (faux gentleman's outfitters, head office in Greenford). He was prattling on about the joys of the countryside and how 'there aren't many people who never go to the country'. I know, 'Alex James: bit of a c**t' shocker. But still.

(To note another thread, I also dislike the fact that good food and even dandyism are seen as middle-class pursuits. I bought ten suits this year)
 
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rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
Hummingbird Bakery / 100,000,000 varieties of cupcake, most of them brightly coloured.

food seems to be one of the main places twee flourishes. all those homemade looking bakeries and cafes that are overpriced beyond belief and manned by a bunch of arrogantly snobbish staff that you get in soho, hoxton, clapham, or brixton, theyre all basically the same shop, just made to look 'individual' and 'different'. id rather go to greggs.

well ok, i wouldnt (tho i like greggs rolls and sausage rolls and pasties), but i make those kinds of cakes at home. i hate paying about 3 quid just for one slice. same as in spitalfields market. nice looking cakes, but i can make them just as good myself.
 

comelately

Wild Horses
I had to be in Islington for a few weekends this year. I paid £2 for an artisan cinnamon bun; it wasn't very good. Another time (early September I think), two young boys actually had a pop up cupcake shop. Their prices were reasonable, so I bought some - but in hindsight I shouldn't have been encouraging the posh little fuckers.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
B&S are almost definitively twee. Clever and occasionally dark as well, but certainly twee. If what we're talking about doesn't include Belle and Sebastian then "twee" is the wrong word for it.

Again, if we're going with the computer_rock / Eagleton definition then we need a new word because that's got bugger all to do with twee in any existing sense.

Many of the examples of twee in this thread seem to share a lot of postmodern tropes that are generally associated with liberalism is my point. Ie nostalgia mode - particularly an ahistorical nostalgia, one without loss/anguish (john lewis ad). Also the ironic appropriation of existing culture which destroys any original meaning and replaces it with... well whatever you call poompaloose.

While I would consider the very specific postmodern nostalgia as essential to twee's definition, I wouldn't say that irony is. However, I think the fact that the ironic appropriation of other culture often seems to adopt the 'twee' aesthetic is quite telling about that aesthetic.

Are we still talking cross purposes? Is what I am describing twee? Or is it just the latest mode of postmodernism that seems to share an aesthetic with something else that isn't completely fucking awful?

edit - the eagleton article is here btw for the person who asked:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7043/is_16/ai_n28127663/
 
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rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
i call for a ban on blackboard signage.
(though again, i do actually like this. i must be more twee than i thought, though i also call for a ban on shit graphic design - was tragic seeing the crap stockphoto sign my local church have got up compared to the old fashioned one they used to have).
lastly, i call for a ban on people using the word artisan so easily. youre not artisan cake makers. you just googled a recipe.

the vanilla and chocolate cake i got from spitalfields market wasnt very good, btw. too light on the flavours, and a bit dense. spitalfields market doesnt really even feel like a market, though they have some cool stuff there.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
(To note another thread, I also dislike the fact that good food and even dandyism are seen as middle-class pursuits. I bought ten suits this year)

A mate of mine is very into The Chap and all the stuff that goes with that, but has moaned to me about how the 'movement' (if you can call it that) started out with a real situationist, 'anarcho-dandyist' edge to it (the 'Civilise the City' march, for example) but has in some quarters become a sort of Young Tories' club. Shame, although by the look of things they still do cool parties and other events - I went to the Chap Olympics a few years ago and that was a hoot.

But yeah, the idea that it's 'posh' to eat good food is fucking ridiculous and one of the more depressing aspects of British culture. Of course it's perpetuated by advertising, especially by motherfucking M&S - "this isn't just [food], it's [fancy wanky expensive food]", inevitably V/O'd by that woman with the awful gooey, unctuous voice. As others have said, this is a specifically British thing and is not found in (say) many countries in mainland Europe where enjoying good food is seen as a perfectly normal thing that ordinary people do all the time.

On the point of fancy pricey boutique bakers vs. Gregg's...hmm, rock and a hard place. I've never seen anything in a Gregg's that looked even remotely apetising but then I've been spoiled by years of living in Harringay and gorging myself on stuff from Turkish bakeries, which are both delicious and independent (unlike Gregg's) and reasonably priced and unpretentious (unlike your artisanal organic handmade muffin merchants).

Also, any food or drink that claims to be "hand-crafted" can fuck off, on principle. Is the word "made" too plebian these days, or something?
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
what about that jose gonzales cover of the knife? is that a twee-ification?

edit - used for a fucking sony advert too INNART, which might more it seem more twee than it actually is.......
 
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Trillhouse

Well-known member
what about that jose gonzales cover of the knife? is that a twee-ification?

edit - used for a fucking sony advert too INNART, which might more it seem more twee than it actually is.......
According to the C.R. article I posted back a page (or 2), this was the advert & song that kicked started advertising's love affair with twee. I think it's as close to a defining point of this nu-twee as you're going to get.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value=""><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Broadly appealing, childish, playful, nostalgic, whimsical, inoffensive, gently aesthetically pleasing, etc.
And wholly unoriginal.
 

comelately

Wild Horses
A mate of mine is very into The Chap and all the stuff that goes with that, but has moaned to me about how the 'movement' (if you can call it that) started out with a real situationist, 'anarcho-dandyist' edge to it (the 'Civilise the City' march, for example) but has in some quarters become a sort of Young Tories' club. Shame, although by the look of things they still do cool parties and other events - I went to the Chap Olympics a few years ago and that was a hoot.

Hmmmmmmmm

img_5548.jpg


I have a nice 2nd hand Cashmere Brioni, and I do want a Tweed (hang on a minute!)
- but the whole Chap thing does seem pretty twee to me, though I can see that it may have not always been so.

I'm more of a Jaeger man really. Once I know a bit more about what I like and I feel my body size has stabilised a bit, I'll think about going bespoke.

I do like pocket-squares though.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
comedy rappers need to fuck off but that's another thing entirely

According to the C.R. article I posted back a page (or 2), this was the advert & song that kicked started advertising's love affair with twee. I think it's as close to a defining point of this nu-twee as you're going to get.

i'm gonna read it now
 
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comelately

Wild Horses
The notion of childishness reminds me of the ol' Ken Wilber 'pre/trans fallacy' where 'romantics' elevate all non-rational states to the status of trans-rational. To be twee is often to take the Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp 'A Child I Will Always Be' far too seriously. In a secular society where the trans-rational is discredited, capitalism is left free to plug the gap by selling the pre-rational as a quasi-spiritual experience.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps

I went to a Chap-affiliated gig a few years back where the Zen Hussies played, and it wasn't like that at all - really swinging, high-octane, ska-tinged rock'n'roll. That said, there is a definite twee element to all this vaguely steampunk-y 'neo-Victorianism', but that goes far beyond The Chap as such, which as far as I can see is (or at least originally was) more about being stylish and a bit flamboyant, not 'twee' at all.
 
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SecondLine

Well-known member
My view is that 'vaguely steampunk-y neo-Victorianism' is not the same as twee - doesn't quite have the same emphasis on the fey and the infantile, surely..? - but is shit in its own way
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
My view is that 'vaguely steampunk-y neo-Victorianism' is not the same as twee - doesn't quite have the same emphasis on the fey and the infantile, surely..? - but is shit in its own way

You're probably right...it can be OK if it's done well but I think it's really played out now and people are doing it without any real originality and without having to make much effort. It's the same people who'd have dressed like swinging '60s hepcats in the mid-late '90s when everyone was jizzing in their pants over Carnaby Street-esque 'cool Britannia' and will probably be reviving, oh I dunno, the teddy-boy look or baroque-era troubadours in a few years' time.
 
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