shakespeare

[Benny Bunter]

He mashes up Shakespeare with Rimbaud, Eliot and Joyce in the 'writing machine' section of Ticket

 

[0bleak]

that ain't nothin' to shake a spear at

 

[version]

@Corpsey

 

[Benny Bunter]

Got a complete works, so I've been reading a few of the minor plays, filling in the gaps.

Two Gentlemen of Verona is a pretty good read, but the ending is appalling on every level. What was he thinking?! Almost totally ruined the whole thing, but worth it for the bits with Lance and his dog which are genuinely funny and charming. 6/10

Love's Labour's Lost is brilliant for the virtuosic wordplay, some of which went over my head admittedly, but I liked this one a lot. 8/10

Comedy of Errors - slight but tight. Read it one sitting and enjoyed it immensely. 8/10

And I've just read the first act of Titus Andronicus. The writing is well ropey so far, but a lot people reckon someone else wrote the first act, so maybe it'll get better from here? Apparently there's lots of morally repugnant ultraviolence to come, so I'm quite curious to see how bad it can possibly be more than anything.

Looking forward to reading Much ado about Nothing and Coriolanus.

 

[IdleRich]

that ain't nothin' to shake a spear at

Used to know a guy who had a big project thing called Billy Wobbledagger, in fact he was a very talented writer, I wonder what he's up to now.

 

[IdleRich]

Got a complete works, so I've been reading a few of the minor plays, filling in the gaps.

Two Gentlemen of Verona is a pretty good read, but the ending is appalling on every level. What was he thinking?! Almost totally ruined the whole thing, but worth it for the bits with Lance and his dog which are genuinely funny and charming. 6/10

Love's Labour's Lost is brilliant for the virtuosic wordplay, some of which went over my head admittedly, but I liked this one a lot. 8/10

Comedy of Errors - slight but tight. Read it one sitting and enjoyed it immensely. 8/10

And I've just read the first act of Titus Andronicus. The writing is well ropey so far, but a lot people reckon someone else wrote the first act, so maybe it'll get better from here? Apparently there's lots of morally repugnant ultraviolence to come, so I'm quite curious to see how bad it can possibly be more than anything.

Looking forward to reading Much ado about Nothing and Coriolanus.

Titus is the most violent one where an eye gets ripped out if I remember.

But isn't it true that all the bad bits get attributed to non-Shakespeare cos of being not good? Seems a copout to me.

 

[jenks]

Lear is the eye.
Titus, well, I’ll leave Benny to find that out.

 

[IdleRich]

How sharper than a serpent's tooth to be corrected by @jenks!

 

[okzharp]

Used to know a guy who had a big project thing called Billy Wobbledagger, in fact he was a very talented writer, I wonder what he's up to now.

he writes about jazz

 

[Benny Bunter]

But isn't it true that all the bad bits get attributed to non-Shakespeare cos of being not good? Seems a copout to me.

Nah, I'm into the second act now, and the difference in the quality of the writing is huge, like night and day. So far, it reads like someone else started writing it, but they couldn't carry on for some reason, so they passed it on to shakey.

 

[Benny Bunter]

@jenks what do you make of gentleman of verona, comedy of errors and LLL?

 

[IdleRich]

Nah, I'm into the second act now, and the difference in the quality of the writing is huge, like night and day. So far, it reads like someone else started writing it, but they couldn't carry on for some reason, so they passed it on to shakey.

But couldn’t it be he was in a hurry or something or was asked to rewrite at the last minute?

When Paul McCartney does a shit album we don't say "it can't have been him in the Beatles"... OK bad example but you know what I mean.

 

[Benny Bunter]

I dunno, it's possible I suppose. The end of two gentleman of verona reads like he was in a hurry to finish it. Three or four totally stupid and implausible things all happen in quick succession on the last 2 pages, then it just ends, and you're like wtf?! But you can still tell it's him somehow.

But the first act of Titus is so totally different in style and lacking in any flair, it's hard to believe he wrote it.

 

[okzharp]

do you think Shakespeare understood that sometimes crude, implausible, disorientating non-sequiturs or "bad bits" are theatrically effective/entertaining?

 

[IdleRich]

Deus ex machina might be a good name for that kind of thing.

 

[jenks]

@jenks what do you make of gentleman of verona, comedy of errors and LLL?

I really like CoE - I know I bang on about this but they are texts to be performed and CoE really delivers on stage - snappy dialogue, some great sight gags and pacy - usually over in 90 minutes.
LLL really relies on a good cast - I saw a really beauty RSC production with the same cast as Much Ado and the two together worked as complementary pieces - exploring many of the same themes.
Verona I think is minor but has some lovely moments of verse.

 

[jenks]

do you think Shakespeare understood that sometimes crude, implausible, disorientating non-sequiturs or "bad bits" are theatrically effective/entertaining?

I think that’s what matters to him. Occasionally modern productions do a kind of double take as if to say ‘I dunno why he put this bit in’ to the audience but I think his original audience enjoyed the bawdy and seemingly confusing bits for what they were - entertainment.

 

[Corpsey]

Shakespeare and dickens--creaky plots, shameless showmanship, immortal characters, linguistic wizardry

 

[Benny Bunter]

Dunno, I think there are good "bad" bits and just plain bad "bad" bits.

 

[jenks]

As the classicists say “even Homer nods.”