The music journalism hall of shame thread

rrrivero

Well-known member
It will always get support from somewhere and that's completely fine for the people who like the kind of music 'somewhere' supports. Some Daily Telegraph reviewer is probably going to like the next Nickelback album, I'm not dedicating time to shredding it to pieces. The listener won't be flooded with positivity regarding a certain piece of shit music, because they have a choice of what kind of reviewers to follow.

Though I guess the problem is with people who just follow the hype. If journalist A wants to make some easy cash and hype up something that's already being hyped, then it should be up to journalist B to counter the hype if it's not warranted. In that case I'd say negative reviews are justified, because whereas I'd like to believe that most people can make up their own mind after reading a positive review and listening on youtube, some cannot help but be bandwagoners.
I think why you hate a record is potentially just as interesting as why you love it.
I think this is a valid point, but it takes a skilled reviewer to make the way they hate something enjoyable to read. It's all too tempting to just indulge yourself when writing a negative review, it seems, and I really hate reading about how some self-acclaimed 'trendsetter' is so above it all

edit: I should add that I think opinion pieces on the general state of a genre, no matter how dire, are more than welcome as long as the author is earnest in his concerns
 
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Gombreak

Well-known member
It's all too tempting to just indulge yourself when writing a negative review, it seems, and I really hate reading about how some self-acclaimed 'trendsetter' is so above it all

I think thats the inherent flaw with a lot of this writing, it's so easy to be indulgent (theory is just so sexy!). The nature of the beast will attract those with ego. The best writing will always come from those who self-justify, self-critisise and are self-aware within context.

I think the framework the piece sits in is important too, I can count the time a 200 word review on RA has influenced me on one hand. I suppose it's a reflection of attention spans that readers don't want to dissect prose, but as was pointed out in the MNML SSG article over time it creates this odd culture of having a lack of context for the stuff to sit in through their quick-fire nature. I'm using Resident Advisor as my particular fixing point here, but there's often a stream of comments underneath the writing that expresses joy at the music/theme without any discourse. I wrote a (drunken) review of the new Actress expressing a sense of disappointment and quickly after posting someone had commented on the facebook link to it 'god damn actress is king'. I sometimes wonder if music journalism has gradually caused people to deal with it as nothing more than an extension of hype or if it's adapted to suit people who want that particular sugar rush.

I think Rory Gibb's writing, particularly his hyperspecific features he used to do for drownedinsound and now The Quietus, are a constantly excellent showcase for how to provide new insight on music; providing individual pocket reviews on key releases and then framing them in wider context and meditating on them.

Edit: I'm talking as a layman, working at a much lower level than Angus etc.
 
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SecondLine

Well-known member
I think thats the inherent flaw with a lot of this writing, it's so easy to be indulgent (theory is just so sexy!).

haha yes this is definitely true, though I don't think an excess of theory-indulgence is a problem afflicting the majority of journalism, just fuckers like me

Bored of Reynolds flogging the same dead 'nuum is king' horse tbh,though that's probably because I've spent the last 3 months writing a dissertation on it. and it frustrates me when blackdown picks up his terminology and toes the party line, though I haven't read the road rap piece yet and I suspect it's excellent like all his genre overview pieces
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
the main prob with a lot of music writing is that no one/not many people are getting paid for it. so the incentive to spend longer is probably less. and the people that used to do it for a wage arent interested/cant do it any longer. and hardly any websites want to pay. so the only people doing it are those who can afford to do it for free, or are hoping to get a leg up into the industry, which they do by playing the game and not writing anything negative. so naturally it ends up just as boosterism with little insight. but then thats the fine line between positive reviews and writing a puff piece. but i dont think negative reviews have to be indulgent, and reading negative reviews when i was younger helped me form my own opinions (and dogma perhaps!) about listening to music. without that, its just anything goes. which might be nicer, and it does mean that perhaps we are now more open minded, and more willing to be fairer, but its also a lot, lot blander, both in terms of the music (arguably) and the writing about it.

i think theres still good writing about music around, but a lot of it for me, as opinion has basically gotten lost amid all the enthusiasm and reasonable-ness, it means a lot of it is to do with the actual writing itself, how good a word stylist you are, as opposed to what you have to say about the music.

there was a good kpunk piece ages ago in fact (when it was a mag i think) about the need for critique but i dont know if its online anywhere.
 
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rrrivero

Well-known member
genre overviews are great, could definitely go for more of those. The criticism (or praise) is far more powerful and eye-opening if it isn't referring to a particular album but rather a movement as a whole. It takes far more effort to write them as well, so one would assume the author isn't just doing it for attention/money.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
it frustrates me when blackdown picks up his terminology and toes the party line, though I haven't read the road rap piece yet and I suspect it's excellent like all his genre overview pieces

i picked it up to make the strongest case that it might be all over... not exactly towing the normal party line ;)
 

Roshman

Well-known member
I think Rory Gibb's writing, particularly his hyperspecific features he used to do for drownedinsound and now The Quietus, are a constantly excellent showcase for how to provide new insight on music; providing individual pocket reviews on key releases and then framing them in wider context and meditating on them.

It was partially a Hyperspecific feature that I was referencing to in my head when I wrote out that big ol' post on page one. One of the earlier ones from this year was posted on the "Future Garage" subreddit and was getting a lot of love. I couldn't stand it. I see he's now putting up links with his mini-reviews but before he wasn't and so my attack about description was almost a direct result of seeing that. However I do agree that the step back approach gives some interesting reading, but a bulk of those articles to me are a waste effort. If he wrote shorter articles and referenced latest releases within his overview I think I'd enjoy it more.

Bored of Reynolds flogging the same dead 'nuum is king' horse tbh,though that's probably because I've spent the last 3 months writing a dissertation on it. and it frustrates me when blackdown picks up his terminology and toes the party line, though I haven't read the road rap piece yet and I suspect it's excellent like all his genre overview pieces

Absolutely, I feel if a theory is banded around too much then there can be a lack of new ideas about the industry as people seem to be in a state of mind where they are, almost subconsciously, looking for evidence that aligns with nuum expectations rather than taking a step back and trying to evalute the situation differently in a more passive manner.

SecondLine said:
Also Roshman, talking about personality in writing, I'm reminded of this paper I was reading last week about the move in the music press from 'polyglottism' (multiple distinct voices vying for attention throughout a mag) towards 'branding' (a single unified editorial tone, lends itself well to media partnerships and bland boosterism) - http://jou.sagepub.com/content/2/1/23.short - don't think it's a free access paper though unfortunately

Cheers for this, I've managed to grab it through my uni email so will read it later.
 
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Blackdown

nexKeysound
i think there's two cases here:

- negative reviews of material many people think is poor.
- negative reviews of material many people think is good.

the former i really dont have time for personally. there's just so much poor or mediocre music i'm sent monthly (like 400 tracks), writing reviews of this would be kind of purgatory.

the latter i can see the value of perhaps but in most cases i cant be bothered. in most cases there's quite a lot of popular music that's not for me, it too would take forever - and at what gain? in a few cases i might see the value and i have written these kinds of pieces (when huge numbers of people began loving wobble for example) but mostly i'd rather use my time elsewhere.

i'd urge everyone who is posting on this thread who disagrees with me (ie they want lots more reviews about how certain famous records are in fact crap) to take this up as a personal mission for themselves, take one for the team.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
it'd be interesting to hear from music journalists how the now-routine practice of having comments threads below reviews affects (even sub-consciously) how they write.

Journalists who do have a strong personality in their writing, and aren't afraid to go against the standard line (Alex Macpherson is probably one of the best examples) often attract instant ire from below the line. I wonder if this is putting off some writers from showing a bit more personality? The more of themselves they put out there, the more they're setting themselves up as a target.
 

SecondLine

Well-known member
genre overviews are great, could definitely go for more of those. The criticism (or praise) is far more powerful and eye-opening if it isn't referring to a particular album but rather a movement as a whole. It takes far more effort to write them as well, so one would assume the author isn't just doing it for attention/money.

True although there is a danger of them tipping over into ego-boosting taxonomy ('I named the trend & marked out its borders before anyone else did'), which I think can make for striking journalism but often do a disservice to the music it's addressing (I'm reminded of reynolds' 'maximalism' piece from last year, although his nuum articles from the 90s are obviously masterpieces of the form)

it'd be interesting to hear from music journalists how the now-routine practice of having comments threads below reviews affects (even sub-consciously) how they write.

It's difficult to know what's worse: writing something controversial & getting a barrage of criticism in the comments, or writing something (you thought was) controversial and getting no comments at all (speaking as someone who's had both)

Comment-box culture definitely removes an aspect of detachment between the writer and their readers' opinions of them, and I think that can be pretty unpleasant at times - the attacks feel more personal. I usually have to stop checking comments a few days after a piece is published, I obsess over them - and there's that old truism that you may read 20 nice things, but it's the one nasty thing that stays with you.

Having said that I wouldn't be where I am now (whatever modest position in the music journalism galaxy that is) if I hadn't slammed a high profile DJ on a very public platform so I'm all for voicing negativity when it's appropriate/justified/has conviction behind it.
 

Gombreak

Well-known member
It was partially a Hyperspecific feature that I was referencing to in my head when I wrote out that big ol' post on page one. One of the earlier ones from this year was posted on the "Future Garage" subreddit and was getting a lot of love. I couldn't stand it. I see he's now putting up links with his mini-reviews but before he wasn't and so my attack about description was almost a direct result of seeing that. However I do agree that the step back approach gives some interesting reading, but a bulk of those articles to me are a waste effort. If he wrote shorter articles and referenced latest releases within his overview I think I'd enjoy it more.

I can see what you mean, but I think what interests me about those features is the way it's an integration of the mini reviews within a larger thought piece, and there's multiple laters to peel away at, including links elsewhere.
I think layout is often vastly underrated at giving a piece depth, I remember someone linking to their personal blog on here with an article about Levon Vincent, and the simple idea of having the YouTube of the song(s) at the top then the meditation upon it underneath it so you read through whilst the music played had a lasting impression on me.


Absolutely, I feel if a theory is banded around too much then there can be a lack of new ideas about the industry as people seem to be in a state of mind where they are, almost subconsciously, looking for evidence that aligns with nuum expectations rather than taking a step back and trying to evalute the situation differently in a more passive manner.

i'm always aware of falling into this. I've friends in literary circles who've said to me they've got to the point where they don't actually read text anymore, and after identifying the problem are unsure how even to approach critical response anymore. I've always been intrigued by the possibility of alternative critical approaches, could
reader-response criticism be applied to music reviews? Some kind of greater utilisation of the chatbox to make an initial statement then engage the readership in state and respond discussion? Would it just be too much like a forum? Would readers even care enough to bother?

Edit: there's a fine balance to be found for a writer or journalist to have character and confidence but not be so authorititive and self-righteous that everyone thinks they're a prat. One of the first thing I'll do when I've penned a piece is go through it and delete any 'sort of', 'kind of', 'slightly' etc where a more definitive statement will do (I'm still far too wishy-washy though).
 
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I think Alex Macpherson's attitude is really valuable: taking the heat that comes from attacking the darlings of the paper he works for, (like Radiohead, etc). That's pretty brave, I think. And it's not ALL negative, he's as committed to riding for the music he loves and thinks is important as he is shooting down buzz bands. I suspects he kind of likes getting in ppl's faces, despite all of the flak he gets for it. Shows yr making an IMPACT, provoking ppl, adding to the conversation. (It's telling that he has everyone at ILM begging for his opinion on things.) Personality is the thing. He's a guy with distinctive tastes who's opinion you wanna hear about, even if you think its wrong.
 

proteus

Active member
I wouldn't be where I am now (whatever modest position in the music journalism galaxy that is) if I hadn't slammed a high profile DJ on a very public platform so I'm all for voicing negativity when it's appropriate/justified/has conviction behind it.

oh dear.
 

luka

Well-known member
i think its more that you dont get to read the good ones becasue no one publishes them. or becasue they cant be bothered trying to get published. i think theres lots of them. like tim finney or whoever. just people who suceed in life are cunts.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Taylor Parkes, in 2001, around the time the music press as something other than consumer tips and extended press releases, finally expired:

Most music critics are boring for exactly the reasons you'd expect. Some wit like David Lee Roth said that music journalists like Elvis Costello because music journalists look like Elvis Costello; you can follow that to its logical conclusion, which is that they all think like Elvis Costello too. Both share a conviction that a lack of spark and flash, or the transcendent and blinding fuck-me flame that bends in all directions or what have you, can be overcome with artisan stuff and tactics. Because they're demonstrably wrong, they get defensive or go into denial or some other bullshit, become arrogant and distant and keep babbling to fill the silence, and in the case of music journalists, they talk about: new this and that, the life and times of such and such/what I did once while I listened to Dylan or The Smiths or The Clash or, in another 6 years, Manic Street Preachers or Belle & Sebastian ("Why They Were Like The Velvet Underground And Also The Stooges" by Josh, hi I'm Josh, you might have read my "piece" about Belle & Sebastian, would you like to go to the pictures?).
I don't know exactly how this differs from anyone else who ever spent any time writing about pop music, but I assumed that the first thing you have to consider is that you're writing about something that's a.) "good" or "bad" for reasons that are for the most part abstract, impossible to plot and difficult to discuss without resorting to the kind of language and metaphor that would hasten your dismissal from the space program, and b.) in its purest ideal form, a distillation of revolution (emotional storms, fury, lust, outrage, idealism, subversion), rather than something that can be indexed or evaluated. Therefore, writing about music can only be pointless unless it somehow captures - not just attempts to capture - *some* of that heat and light and emotional thunder, and somehow meets pop music on its own terms: abstract, outraged, subversive, lustful etc. Or funny, or chaotic. Doing this is hard, and if you get it a bit wrong, it's a disaster and people are watching. Also, working up to it is often embarrassing and painful (a lot of my stuff was bad because I was 21, 22, and simply couldn't write well enough (and didn't know enough) to pull it off; once I learned to write, it was only ever embarrassing when it had been hacked out fast, or when some blockheaded editor had ruined it). Anyway, I suspect Stuart Maconie or someone would snigger at this line of reasoning, but 1.) Stuart Maconie sniggers at everything for a living while never having contributed one item to civilization that even measures up to the magic of fucking Soda Streams or someone's hair out of Fat Larry's Band or whatever he's fucking smirking on about this week on 24 channels, and 2.) that's why he's such a waste of time, obviously, of course.

The most boring music writers don't actually see what they do as criticism. There are (were - I don't read the music press anymore, there *is* no music press anymore) some dolts who take the high academic or theoretical route without raising a smile, much less a valid point, with no self-awareness or sense of the absurd, and they're the worst of all. But the boring ones see themselves as historians (at the Mojo end of the speculum) or reporters/on-the-page (kids') TV presenters/funsters (the snappy claptrap stuff). Personally, it was never my "only aim was to criticise and then dissect something I could never do." When I came across something I could never do, I tended to like it very much, or at least admire it: whatever, I'd "criticise" it, in the literal sense. The problem was, since like many people I can play guitar and keyboards adequately, and bash a tune together if necessary, most of the indie flop-outs whose records I was served up to review were doing something I could have done quite easily, but which would have bored me stiffer than listening to other people do it: that is, make average guitar rock. I genuinely believe that most indie fans' tolerance of Travis, Stereophonics or Ash stems from ignorance of the fact that, if they tried, and not that hard, they could probably come up with something just as accomplished themselves. I don't watch many bands these days, because I don't want to and I can't afford to, but when I do I'm always baffled by the all-pervading tolerance in the indie world. It seems that anything at all is good enough. If the level of your imagination is such that you accept so many groups, and take them pretty much as seriously as you take anything except your ca-reeeeer, it follows that listening to your thoughts on this dull music, or on anything much (phrased simply and plainly) is going to be absolutely fucking miserable.

This also coincided with The Face imploding, and i-D turning into a Shoreditch clothes rag, which meant that people like Steve Beard and Kodow Eshun lost their final platform, which was also the last pocket of this style of music journalism other than Wire or the internet (i.e. specialist, atomised ghettoes).

I think it's sad. I miss it. I liked the thrusting, over-inflated style; negative, evil reviews were (are) as positive and important as rhapsodic, cascading raves. When music writing at least tried to be as exhilirating (or extreme) as the music it described (or the response) then it had some worth and point, or was at least entertaining. Stupid stuff, too: Paul Morley asking Jackie Collins if she minded being interviewed in a shower, or picking a fight with Andrew Ridgeley. That kind of behaviour is inconceivable, now. The power relationship between the press and the record companies/artists has reversed, which is because the press is in even worse shape than the companies, who are in a very bad way anyway. It's ugly. It's necrophilia, sycophancy, cynical careering, consumer advice. And there's no money it and the perks have vanished (no trips to LA to interview Snoop Doggy Dog or The Bangles).
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
you talking just about the professional media outlets? because surely social media has allowed a much wider range of opinions?
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
And there's no money it and the perks have vanished (no trips to LA to interview Snoop Doggy Dog or The Bangles).

well unless youre at somewhere like at the guardian.

i miss the style mags. and all the niche music mags you had. they were the only place you could read about a lot of the music i liked in a way that wasnt like q or ultra serious and academic like the wire (i love the wire but n/m) but the urgency has gone from the ones that are left.

ive always wondered if places like RA or fact pay anyone.

you talking just about the professional media outlets? because surely social media has allowed a much wider range of opinions?

i think the 'golden age', if there was such a thing, of msg board discussion was in the early 00s. i dont know if people discuss music on the web in the way they did back then.
 
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