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constant escape
winter withered, warm
Anyone watch any of the RNC? My first time seeing any of it, just saw a few speakers.
How bankable a tactic is it to appeal to residual cold war anti-communism? Granted I only watched four speakers, but two of them explicitly equated the prospective Biden administration to some communist or socialist regime (and those two terms seem more or less synonymous in these cases).
How bankable a tactic is it to appeal to residual cold war anti-communism? Granted I only watched four speakers, but two of them explicitly equated the prospective Biden administration to some communist or socialist regime (and those two terms seem more or less synonymous in these cases).
IdleRich
IdleRich
I feel that sadly it's more effective than we might guess... but it can't be good that out of the speakers they have half are called Trump, that looks a bit sad to everyone surely... and they have two speakers facing significant trouble right now - with Eric being subpoenaed and Falwell forced to deny his resignation after various scandals (claims he's just on long leave) - not counting Trump himself obviously.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm sure it goes down a storm with his base, who would cheer equally loud if Trump called Biden a Wall Street shill, but I would hope the very idea is self-evidently ridiculous to anyone who doesn't already own a MAGA hat.
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Leo
Well-known member
all conventions are hyper partisan and extended campaign commercials, including the Dems last week, so certainly no surprises last night. I just question whether many undecided voters connect with the bleak dyspotian hellscape republicans predict will happen with a biden win. the base is convinced, but the depiction is so over the top that it comes off as almost comical.
IdleRich
IdleRich
That's exactly what I was thinking. Surely utterly ludicrous lies of this nature cannot be a good tactic. I just don't see that floating voters (if any such genuinely exist) are going to see that and think "Hmmm, I'm not sure that I'll enjoy being forced to live next door to members of a particularly violent El Salvadoran organised crime gang, that decides it, I'm voting Trump".
IdleRich
IdleRich
I don't even know what that would mean... why are they saying that? Are they tapping into people's deep-seated fear of socialists' renowned hatred of suburbia? Is Biden gonna make suburbs illegal or will he actually knock them down? And what will happen, will there be loads of empty neat houses amid featureless rows of overgrown formerly manicured gardens? I guess it's just coded racism meaning that Biden will crazily not change the law to allow rich white people to shoot black people on sight if they walk past or have the temerity to buy a house in their neighbourhood.
Leo
Well-known member
it's totally (not so) coded racism: he will send dark people in to ruin your safe, hard-earned neighborhood. scare tactics, and also a largely outdated notion because many suburbs are already racially mixed.
newsflash: lots of black people have good-paying jobs and can afford a house in the 'burbs as well. not all of them are unemployed gang members!
newsflash: lots of black people have good-paying jobs and can afford a house in the 'burbs as well. not all of them are unemployed gang members!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Being an unemployed gang member? I guess we'll just have to see what happens in November.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
Could some real marxists, today, pass as right-wingers?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well some trad Marxists have an aversion to identity politics that's so strong it's hard not to see it as reactionary, to be honest. And at the other extreme, radical feminists have made common cause with Evangelicals to fight their common enemies (porn, sex work(ers), transwomen), so anything is possible, I guess.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "Marxists", because when the modern right uses the word, they don't mean people who believe in class struggle and dialectical materialism. It's short for "cultural Marxism", which means identity politics and woke academia.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
Very true - a ton of ambiguity here. I guess one of the debates would be just that, what is meant by marxist. I would say anyone who abides by an ideology that is (directly? indirectly?) in compliance with discourse from Marx or other marxists, is a marxist. Since there is a spectrum or variety of positions that would thus qualify, would some of them pass as right wing - and which ones?
And I'm starting to wonder if marxism isn't limited to anti-capitalism. Granted, it could entail a very generalized and abstract interpretation of his work, but I wouldn't consider such an interpretation to be unreasonable, especially considering how abstract he got (from what I've read).
This is a pivotal debate for me, and one that greatly confounds me, especially now that woke capitalism promises (or threatens) to become even more of a reality.
I think opposing capitalism, radically, means opposing the way matter and intelligence evolves, universally. That said, there is a ton of disagreeable ethical baggage thrown onto most conceptions of capitalism, that that baggage is more than likely non-essential. It's like being allergic to the air around you - which seems to shed a light on (what appears to me to be) the general impotence of the Marxist project since, what, neoliberalism?
So a "pro-capitalist" marxism would shift its frame of reference from the setting in which capitalism contends with other potential economic -isms, to the setting in which capitalism is itself the stage on which contend different flavors of capitalism, of which there are an infinite variety. This doesn't necessarily preclude the eventual emergence of communism, but it does add a whole other gauntlet to run before we get there.
Maybe I'm drinking the "tech-bro" koolaid, but it seems like communism, proper, is only possible if there is some kind of superhuman intelligence that is governing us, one whose bias is virtually undetectable, and next to objective.
Whether that amounts to a utopia or a dystopia, depends on whether or not we continue to indulge our allergy to capitalism. I think anti-capitalism, radically, is a denial of the cosmos. That said, for most people "anti-capitalism" simply means an opposition to the ethical murkiness of capitalism, which is far more reasonable and far less radical than the anti-capitalism I have in mind.
In fact, I might even up the ante and argue that any radical anti-bigotry needs to overcome its allergy/phobia of capitalism, in order to start making the next wave of progress.
And I'm starting to wonder if marxism isn't limited to anti-capitalism. Granted, it could entail a very generalized and abstract interpretation of his work, but I wouldn't consider such an interpretation to be unreasonable, especially considering how abstract he got (from what I've read).
This is a pivotal debate for me, and one that greatly confounds me, especially now that woke capitalism promises (or threatens) to become even more of a reality.
I think opposing capitalism, radically, means opposing the way matter and intelligence evolves, universally. That said, there is a ton of disagreeable ethical baggage thrown onto most conceptions of capitalism, that that baggage is more than likely non-essential. It's like being allergic to the air around you - which seems to shed a light on (what appears to me to be) the general impotence of the Marxist project since, what, neoliberalism?
So a "pro-capitalist" marxism would shift its frame of reference from the setting in which capitalism contends with other potential economic -isms, to the setting in which capitalism is itself the stage on which contend different flavors of capitalism, of which there are an infinite variety. This doesn't necessarily preclude the eventual emergence of communism, but it does add a whole other gauntlet to run before we get there.
Maybe I'm drinking the "tech-bro" koolaid, but it seems like communism, proper, is only possible if there is some kind of superhuman intelligence that is governing us, one whose bias is virtually undetectable, and next to objective.
Whether that amounts to a utopia or a dystopia, depends on whether or not we continue to indulge our allergy to capitalism. I think anti-capitalism, radically, is a denial of the cosmos. That said, for most people "anti-capitalism" simply means an opposition to the ethical murkiness of capitalism, which is far more reasonable and far less radical than the anti-capitalism I have in mind.
In fact, I might even up the ante and argue that any radical anti-bigotry needs to overcome its allergy/phobia of capitalism, in order to start making the next wave of progress.