MANCHESTER

MANCHESTER

  • The Buzzcocks

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • The Fall

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Joy Division

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • The Duratti Column

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • John Cooper Clarke

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A Certain Ratio

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • New Order

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • The Smiths

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • The Stone Roses

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 808 State

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • A Guy Called Gerald

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Happy Mondays

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Simply Red

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Take That

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Oasis

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • Total voters
    27

firefinga

Well-known member
I like the idea of a 'croon-nuum'. Where does Bryan Ferry fit into this? (Cue responses of "I don't care as long as it's as far away from me as possible...")

Ferry was very un-croonerish. At least for me. Regarding his singing style and more importantly - I always had the impression the target audience of the crooners were mainly middle aged women. Not so much in Ferry's case.
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Auto-tune - Croon connection? (Re: what Crowley said about it being a way of covering for a shit singing voice)

I think Fetty Wap might be the first auto-crooner.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Ferry was very un-croonerish. At least for me. Regarding his singing style and more importantly - I always had the impression the target audience of the crooners were mainly middle aged women. Not so much in Ferry's case.

Nah, Ferry's a definitive crooner I reckon. You're right about the typical audience for crooners, but that's not what defines the style.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
Nah, Ferry's a definitive crooner I reckon. You're right about the typical audience for crooners, but that's not what defines the style.

Ferry started different but I think as he got older he got more into trying to sing properly and being a proper crooner as opposed to his weirdness.

@Corpse; I'd argue its probably Kanye because Wayne's approach was more deliberately about hearing what happens when the effect of auto-tune corrected him, and T-Pain used it initially for guide until it became a textural effect. But I know Fetty probably isn't listening to Kanye, so I guess by default his big influence is Future.

Also to further fine-tune my point, its less "a shit singing voice" and more like, shit ability to sing. The instinct to know where the notes are in key, hit them right (not G sharp or g flat but G!), hit them clear (not too much vibrato or slur, no nasal tinge). Crooning was the idea that we wouldn't always like clear, clean and perfect singing and emphasize STYLE. So to put it in a certain indication of term, on a technical level Matt Monro would be a greater crooner as a Capital S Singer than Sinatra, but would we instinctually be able to make that distinction unless our ear is trained? What about charisma, little things that aren't 'good' but work for us, etc?
 
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droid

Well-known member
I guess it depends on your definition, but Bowie in his crooning mode, and Morrissey in general both had excellent control of diction, nuance, key etc... I guess the counter argument is that to emphasise style you need consummate control.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I think Bowie's very underrated as a singer, probably because he uses that kind of crooning mode so often. He makes difficult songs seem easy (as anyone who's tried to sing them will know), and as you say, he also has superb stylistic control and knows how to add interest...which a lot of 'technically great' singers omit to pick up, probably because they're so good in the first place
 

...

Beast of Burden
I was going to mention Billy Mackenzie, but then I remembered he was an avant garde operatic diva. David Sylvian as the totally de-sexualised pale white crooner?
 

...

Beast of Burden
It's taking Ferry's postmodern croon to the nth degree by the time of 'Ghosts': affectation layered upon affectation. I like that, it makes Luke's skin crawl. But how different is it, basically, to the vocals in The Band?
 

droid

Well-known member
I think Bowie's very underrated as a singer, probably because he uses that kind of crooning mode so often. He makes difficult songs seem easy (as anyone who's tried to sing them will know), and as you say, he also has superb stylistic control and knows how to add interest...which a lot of 'technically great' singers omit to pick up, probably because they're so good in the first place

I think the croon was something sporadic for him that became more prominent in his later years as he lost some of his range, but yeah, quite underrated 'world on a wing' and 'sweet thing/candidate' are virtuoso performances.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
According to my dad, bowie said that he wanted to be remembered as a great singer and was a fan of this bloke (you can hear bits of bowie's accent in this):

 

version

Well-known member
Manchester’s skyscraper debates hark back to its golden age

'Once seen as a template for the world’s industrial future, the city’s building boom now makes it a test for urban living.'

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DLaurent

Well-known member
I've voted Durutti Column but I'm very conflicted.

I grew up liking rave music, Durutti Column are nice and blissful, but chatting to some older bloke from Manchester who was at the Hacienda told me it all went to pot around the late 80s. I forget the year he gave but it might even have been 86 if not 88. I suppose it will be a question of taste, but it leaves me very conflicted.
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
I've voted Durutti Column but I'm very conflicted.

I grew up liking rave music, Durutti Column are nice and blissful, but chatting to some older bloke from Manchester who was at the Hacienda told me it all went to pot around the late 80s. I forget the year he gave but it might even have been 86 if not 88. I suppose it will be a question of taste, but it leaves me very conflicted.

I agree with the older bloke, that's because this scene at its best was about creating pop music in the ashes of punk, whether you call it "new wave" or "post-punk" or "synth-pop" or whatever. This was fertile ground for a while but lost steam in the mid-80s, when dance music became the form where new vital energy and promise was cropping up, already evidenced by New Order's imitative tailing of New York club music with "Blue Monday." Groups listed here such as Stone Roses and Happy Mondays (outside of Manchester, Primal Scream and, a later example, Saint Etienne, notwithstanding more "experimental" groups like Psychic TV and Cabaret Voltaire, also come to mind) represented an advancement of this tendency in pop to associate one's work with the burgeoning club and rave culture, integrating dance music sensibility into their own production or leasing out remixes to those more embedded in the scene, a grab at vanguardist credibility that would continue with similar subsequent acts into the 90s. In the more straightforward case of 808 State and its very fleeting relevance, Gerald truly (and rather singularly) represents a passing of the torch, or, if you like, the escape from the Haçienda cul-de-sac into the world of modern dance music proper, with its attendant shift to London.

All that being said, I think Durutti Column/Vini held onto his own integrity and was smart not to get swept up in aping trends that were ultimately beyond his abilities, as so many other acts around him did. I was listening to a few of his 90s albums for the first time recently, and while perhaps not indicating the wealth of progression found in contemporaneous developments, he did move with the times gracefully and remained relatively original in his approach to doing so.



 

dilbert1

Well-known member
My parents, the ones in the United States Air Force, had an Oasis CD in the house when I was growing up. Never really cared for it. Didn’t see the point when they had much better ones like the Cranberries and Dixie Chicks.
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
For transparency my vote, however predictable it is of me or overrated they are, is split between Joy Division and Gerald
 
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