my list.

[droid]

ime absolutely not. they magnify the banality of bad music.

Then how do you explain trance? The vast majority of dance music is execrable and people still like it and its primarily because of drugs.

 

[luka]

how do you explain anything? people are weird. youve taken drugs. did you start liking trance?

 

[droid]

Drug/brain/music interaction is a reflection of the listeners personality, experience & perception. Trance/EDM/Big Beat/Rave etc. capitalise on unsophisticated lowest common denominator physical and neurological drug effects,which is why so many people get sucked into the rush. So for many people, awful music sounds better on drugs, in fact the music often has no other function than to elicit these responses.

 

[...]

Also some music can sound at its best when stone cold sober if your emotions are primed to meet it.

 

[...]

Drugs + or x music is a narrow sum.

Not dismissing it at all, but it's not the whole equation.

 

[luka]

yeah i was exaggerating. emotions can do the same job which is why the chemical/emotional upheaval of adolescence sets most peoples tastes in stone

 

[john eden]

I have met some people who like trance who don't do drugs. (As in, they have never done drugs, not that they have given up and are now into yoga etc).

I think they like the adrenaline rush of it - good for keep fit or driving or whatever.

Hyperactive kids can get quite into it too.

 

[Corpsey]

Trance/EDM/Big Beat/Rave etc. capitalise on unsophisticated lowest common denominator physical and neurological drug effects,which is why so many people get sucked into the rush. So for many people, awful music sounds better on drugs, in fact the music often has no other function than to elicit these responses.

Did people not say the same about hardcore, and presumably jungle?

Edit: Ah, you did say rave.

 

[john eden]

re. MCs and lack of discussion thereof:

The thing I've found over the years is that a surprising number of people who are otherwise totally down with the whole jungle / drum & bass program, it seems they don't actually like the MC element at all. They find MCs to be an annoyance.

You also get people who come up with a lot of interesting perceptions about and fantastic imagery evoking the music - Mark Fisher and Kodwo Eshun spring to mind - but who never once mention the MC side of things in their writings about jungle / 2step / etc.

Maybe because the MC element is just too insistently "actual human beings involved in this" - so it interferes with a way of responding to the music in terms of cinematic images running across your mindscreen of a dark dystopian cyber-future nature

which is definitely one truth of the music

just not the whole truth

With all credit to Mark and Kodwo I did get the impression that their take on jungle was based on theorising around the records in their bedrooms more than listening to pirates or going raving.

 

[john eden]

Full disclosure: There was a fairly horrible period in my life in the mid 90s when a bunch of people I knew when raving every weekend to Goa Trance things. Return to the Source and Escape From Samsara at the Brixton Fridge especially.

I tagged along for a good while, but in my defence I had just split up with my significant partner of the time and just wanted to get completely out of it.

My mates ended up being quite intolerant of any other kind of music (like jungle) and descended into a hellish existence of clubbing Friday night to Sunday morning, recovery, back to work Monday-Friday with gym in the evenings. Needless to say this wasn't for me. It was fun for a while but ended up being a peculiarly narrow way of life given all the imagery about consciousness expansion, exotic cultures etc.

 

[luka]

you have to admire the stamina though. i never had that bloody mindedness.

 

[john eden]

you have to admire the stamina though. i never had that bloody mindedness.

Oh completely. A grudging admiration from someone who is obsessed with music myself. But think it did become pavlovian - snare rolls for the endorphine rush. I think being distracted by other things is much healthier...

 

[droid]

Did people not say the same about hardcore, and presumably jungle?

Edit: Ah, you did say rave.

Jungle, techno, the deeper end of house have more sophisticated mechanisms, more subtle moods and textures, a different approach to tension and release.

 

[Corpsey]

It's funny, some part of me rebels against the idea that there is 'good' and 'bad' music, and yet



Is subtlety and sophistication the hallmark of good music?

I thought instantly of this as a possible counterpoint



But even this has a degree of sophistication in its rhythms - just enough, perhaps? A lot of ppl probably thought (and still think) this is absolute shite, 'my toddler could make that', etc.

 

[droid]

Im thinking in terms of dynamics as opposed to musical sophistication.

 

[droid]

Full disclosure: There was a fairly horrible period in my life in the mid 90s when a bunch of people I knew when raving every weekend to Goa Trance things. Return to the Source and Escape From Samsara at the Brixton Fridge especially.

I tagged along for a good while, but in my defence I had just split up with my significant partner of the time and just wanted to get completely out of it.

My mates ended up being quite intolerant of any other kind of music (like jungle) and descended into a hellish existence of clubbing Friday night to Sunday morning, recovery, back to work Monday-Friday with gym in the evenings. Needless to say this wasn't for me. It was fun for a while but ended up being a peculiarly narrow way of life given all the imagery about consciousness expansion, exotic cultures etc.

First big beat, now this. Your well of shame is as deep as you are tall.

 

[sufi]

I was working at the bar in the fridge during those dire seasons
Fridays at Return to the Source and Escape From Satsuma were the penalty, the massive thrashing gay nights on Saturdays (iirc) were the perk

 

[john eden]

First big beat, now this. Your well of shame is as deep as you are tall.

I blame Howard Jones.

Oh and you forgot Marillion.

Everything I go to now is achingly credible, but it's fun to look back on a misspent youth.

 

[john eden]

I was working at the bar in the fridge during those dire seasons
Fridays at Return to the Source and Escape From Satsuma were the penalty, the massive thrashing gay nights on Saturdays (iirc) were the perk

I don't remember people going to the bar much. It would be good to hear more about your experiences, soof.

 

[martin]

Everything I go to now is achingly credible