luka
Well-known member
More or less in agreement. I like the Detroit romanticism but don't think Barty needs it. Think he grasps what that is and does instinctively
Explain Electro To A Sweet Boy
More or less in agreement. I like the Detroit romanticism but don't think Barty needs it. Think he grasps what that is and does instinctively
luka
Well-known member
For me where the value lies is in being taken out of a human frame of reference, human scale, human values, human affect
And it's not unique to techno. You have it in the microscopic events of parmagianni, or in the off-world landscapes of xenakkis.
(Sp?)
You can't ever quite get past the fact of listening as a human but you can identify yourself with what is heard as opposed to the hearer
And it's not unique to techno. You have it in the microscopic events of parmagianni, or in the off-world landscapes of xenakkis.
(Sp?)
You can't ever quite get past the fact of listening as a human but you can identify yourself with what is heard as opposed to the hearer
luka
Well-known member
So that what you are placed into a relationship with isn't another human, with a body, emotions and ideas, but with matter itself. As machine. As landscape. As deep space. As molecular bustling, combining and recombining. As DNA script. As geology. The collisions and cleaving of tectonic plates.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
sory about that.
flexitone- electricity: it's funny enough for me to enjoy. need a grime mc over it in the middle of a pirate radio set for me to enjoy to the fullest
black commandments: that whole-tone run is comedic. that sound that's being used as a snare is cute; like a little mouse. the other stuff's a bit too over-excited dutch blokes on a greek campsite for me. can't say i don't like, but can't say it grabs me either.
almost human: meh. unremarkable. sounds like it's tryng to do something rather than being that something
weird spirit: obvious parallels to funky. again would be alright in the middle of a set some funky mc over it. those chords are nice when they come in.
dva/wiley: like it
geeneus: this is in one of my favourite grime sets. always makes me think less of the dj when it comes on
shock front: there's a little bit in the middle that reminds of the first track on miles davis in concert. the rest is bit dull.
sorte-lave: maybe with uk drill drums it would be good.
pepper: sounds like the stuff i have to make for work. too many bad connotations.
cortex invaders: bit camp synths. like dungeons and dragons.
avians and music boxes: my kind of rhythm on the drums when it doesn't do that 4x4 thing. maybe if there was a bit more emotion chord progression melody wise i'd be on board.
test subject: bit dull.
iinevitable technology untitled: same
islam chipsy: i don't find 'oi remember gameboys' to be a very potent aesthetic to persue
lilt: put that on a trap beat and some bloke from atlanta on the top and i'd love it.
i'll do the rest later...
luka
Well-known member
"where the adamant fixed zones of matter resist the pressures of the imagination. "
This is a fundamental facet and direction of modern art, in music as much as anywhere else. This os what I'm trying to talk about I think. It's not a rejection of the human, it's just seeing what's outside that. Letting the imagination reach past the confines of the human world.
This is a fundamental facet and direction of modern art, in music as much as anywhere else. This os what I'm trying to talk about I think. It's not a rejection of the human, it's just seeing what's outside that. Letting the imagination reach past the confines of the human world.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
a couple of thoughts in the mean time:
rhythm's my main means to attain that thing when you're listening to music and the eyes roll to the back of your head and your mind goes blank like you're having an orgasm. it's fairly specefic rhythmic things that make me do so, which lots of this stuff seems to be lacking. it's rhtymically stable enough as to not be dissasociative or to trancend the capabilities of the body.
the distorted stuff is like one of those shock comedians who think they're all edgy. they only work if you think it's shocking. if you don't care then it loses all it's value.
a lot of it's missing a foreground. it's all background. nothing central to sustain intrigue.
a lot of it's quite camp.
rhythm's my main means to attain that thing when you're listening to music and the eyes roll to the back of your head and your mind goes blank like you're having an orgasm. it's fairly specefic rhythmic things that make me do so, which lots of this stuff seems to be lacking. it's rhtymically stable enough as to not be dissasociative or to trancend the capabilities of the body.
the distorted stuff is like one of those shock comedians who think they're all edgy. they only work if you think it's shocking. if you don't care then it loses all it's value.
a lot of it's missing a foreground. it's all background. nothing central to sustain intrigue.
a lot of it's quite camp.
luka
Well-known member
I remember reading the start of Macbeth a while back and realising that it was high camp. These things shift and metamorphose under different circumstances.
Thunder and lightning. Enter three Witches]
First Witch. When shall we three meet again
In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch. When the hurlyburly's done,
When the battle's lost and won.
Third Witch. That will be ere the set of sun.
First Witch. Where the place?
Second Witch. Upon the heath.
Third Witch. There to meet with Macbeth.
First Witch. I come, Graymalkin!
Second Witch. Paddock calls.
Third Witch. Anon.
All. Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.
[Exeunt]
Thunder and lightning. Enter three Witches]
First Witch. When shall we three meet again
In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch. When the hurlyburly's done,
When the battle's lost and won.
Third Witch. That will be ere the set of sun.
First Witch. Where the place?
Second Witch. Upon the heath.
Third Witch. There to meet with Macbeth.
First Witch. I come, Graymalkin!
Second Witch. Paddock calls.
Third Witch. Anon.
All. Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.
[Exeunt]
Last edited:
luka
Well-known member
Because music is a theatrical art form to such a large degree that camp pantomime aspect is always there, hovering in the background or foregrounded, as in Kate Bush's singing for instance.
Play any rap music to people over a certain age and all they can hear is that camp panto aspect. It's impossible for them to take seriously. Again it's a question of extending or not extending sympathy I think.
What I mean by extending sympathy is similar to the suspension of disbelief- the difference between being caught up in the film and sitting there going
O as iiiiiiif!
Play any rap music to people over a certain age and all they can hear is that camp panto aspect. It's impossible for them to take seriously. Again it's a question of extending or not extending sympathy I think.
What I mean by extending sympathy is similar to the suspension of disbelief- the difference between being caught up in the film and sitting there going
O as iiiiiiif!
Last edited:
barty...
well you just sounded like a deep house dad from 1991, would have probably said the same about belgian techno at the time.
This is the problem you're removed from the lumpen, the comedic, the bombastic, the overtheatrical and yes, the camp. You actually have more in common with the post-dubstep lot.
well you just sounded like a deep house dad from 1991, would have probably said the same about belgian techno at the time.
This is the problem you're removed from the lumpen, the comedic, the bombastic, the overtheatrical and yes, the camp. You actually have more in common with the post-dubstep lot.
Last edited:
well that is soul music the world around isn't it, folk musics as well. when you boil it down to its basics the lyrical content is very simple, not like metal or rap at all. but it is about the emotion. my problem with a lot of contemporary rnb is precisely that it isn't genuinely camp enough, it's like here's an emo formula, pretend to be in pain and agony, when that's not really there. the human has to come out in soul musics. otherwise i just think you might as well surrender to the machine. that's why dem 2 are such pioneers, more than el b or whatever.
I mean...
The thing is a lot of jungle was built on this 'trashy stuff.' I don't agree with Matthew about techno being more important than reggae but he's right about the majority of 92 people listening to king tubby? Get fucking real. that was the nightmares on wax types and the proper deep house/smokers bods.
the disruption isn't in the rhythm. the disruption is in the volts of electricity. you have to appreciate it on its own terms. uk drill rhythms are not very complex either, turkish folk rhythms and late 80s/early 90s ragga rhythms are more complex. and the 4/4 is the original trance, the drum and the pipe.
The thing is a lot of jungle was built on this 'trashy stuff.' I don't agree with Matthew about techno being more important than reggae but he's right about the majority of 92 people listening to king tubby? Get fucking real. that was the nightmares on wax types and the proper deep house/smokers bods.
the disruption isn't in the rhythm. the disruption is in the volts of electricity. you have to appreciate it on its own terms. uk drill rhythms are not very complex either, turkish folk rhythms and late 80s/early 90s ragga rhythms are more complex. and the 4/4 is the original trance, the drum and the pipe.
that is also the brilliance of Zapp, that whole dangerous utopianism. that dangerous utopianism is basically the endpoint of the commodification of folk musics. because if we're being honest with each other hardly anyone will be listening to traditional music in 50 years time apart from ethnomusicologists. even in countries where the folk tradition is very strong like Turkey, autotune pop and EDM europop is the gold standard. this is also an indictment of matthew's capitalism is always progress theory. We can only say that in the west because we are repressed through other means. art is a safety valve. in Turkey that is not as much the case. Selda bağcan etc went to prison for making softly communist rock and pop was the only viable means of distribution for that. whereas in the west we have the dominance of music mags and curators, shit gets labeled avant-garde or whatever even before it breaks through, in essence its destiny is preordained before the events happen. in 80s turkey that is not the case. from handout cassettes to record labels. no john peel, no the wire, no NME, noone to get behind you. and this was historically the case.
in turkey you were either a communist with a gun or a fascist with a gun. if you were working class you were not even that. any music journalists were perfunctory, the idea of critical reviews do not exist over there. only musicological analysis.
I would surmise this is the case for the majority of non anglo-francophone and latin countries. When I first heard hardcore i didn't analyse it even though i know i couldn't play it to anyone. there was no critical perspective to back it up in my area. some garage and house was ok because it was songs. bob marley was alright.
So when i heard the avant-garde it was not a conscious decision, oh look ive heard all this xenakis, let's go back to hardcore, literally the idea of histrionic chipmunks was my avant-garde. i learnt about those bods much later. but i didn't even think it was all that avant-garde at the time, not in that lineage, just kids getting their samples in time, it seemed like real common sense to me. it's only when i read simon a few years later after telling them to deliver my ebook copy of energy flash to berghain, this was amazon.de era as they had the only electronic copy. that's when i made thos connections. oherwise if you told me Johnny L was like 23 skidoo in 2007 i would be like who the fuck are 23 skidoo? laughs.
I would surmise this is the case for the majority of non anglo-francophone and latin countries. When I first heard hardcore i didn't analyse it even though i know i couldn't play it to anyone. there was no critical perspective to back it up in my area. some garage and house was ok because it was songs. bob marley was alright.
So when i heard the avant-garde it was not a conscious decision, oh look ive heard all this xenakis, let's go back to hardcore, literally the idea of histrionic chipmunks was my avant-garde. i learnt about those bods much later. but i didn't even think it was all that avant-garde at the time, not in that lineage, just kids getting their samples in time, it seemed like real common sense to me. it's only when i read simon a few years later after telling them to deliver my ebook copy of energy flash to berghain, this was amazon.de era as they had the only electronic copy. that's when i made thos connections. oherwise if you told me Johnny L was like 23 skidoo in 2007 i would be like who the fuck are 23 skidoo? laughs.
Last edited:
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
the camp part is intentional. i mean, the roots are kraftwerk and p-funk. there's the serious side of things but also a huge amount of sly, wry and subversive shit out there too.
those people are too comfortable now. can't expect much in the way of genuine heartfelt expression from em.
those people are too comfortable now. can't expect much in the way of genuine heartfelt expression from em.