I meant informed consensus! ❌
Labour Splitters
- Thread starter IdleRich
- Start date
I meant informed consensus! ❌
IdleRich
IdleRich
I'm not saying that they didn't happen or aren't true, I just mean that the previous regime was just as bad so to claim it only happened when Chavez appeared and if the country would just turn back to the right everything would be fine for everybody isn't really the whole story.
other_life
bioconfused
man to man is so unjust, children
IdleRich
IdleRich
Is this homophobia or something else I don't understand?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
So literally every single one of these stories is a fabrication, then?
Good to see that the love-in between third-world torturers and Western "anti-imperialists" is still going strong.
Fucking hell.
I think you're in a really dodgy position when you start reproducing the "Shamnesty International" line beloved of Russian state media, or casting aspersions on Human Rights Watch etc. Like I said, I know little about Venezuela but I've seen those smears at work in other spheres, and there at least they were straight bullshit. Strange world we are in now, where whether we believe something is true or not depends on whether it aligns with pre-existing worldview. It's a consumerist approach to truth - we pick our truths how we might select a pair of jeans. If it doesn't fit, straight in the fake news recycle bin.
Back to the thread focus - it occurred to me that supporting any political entity seems to involve initial optimism followed by disappointment. I wonder with the Ind Group, if we can just skip straight to the disappointment?
Back to the thread focus - it occurred to me that supporting any political entity seems to involve initial optimism followed by disappointment. I wonder with the Ind Group, if we can just skip straight to the disappointment?
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
There is a middle ground here too. HRW and Amnesty are not what they profess to be, yet neither are they totally useless. The Kinzer article yyaldrin referenced has some pretty dodgy conclusions imo, esp re Rwanda, but equally I understand the author's reservations about the human rights sector (I worked in it for a short while), and its lack of ability to examine itself and its limitations strikes me as very true.
The Independent Group has itself expertly stage-managed instant disappointment. The majority of the people involved are awful on any other issue than Brexit.
The Independent Group has itself expertly stage-managed instant disappointment. The majority of the people involved are awful on any other issue than Brexit.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
yyaldrin, have you actually read the whole of that Guardian article? The author may have a point about Rwanda, I don't know much about the situation there (and then again he may not, as baboon implies). But how screwed up has your worldview got to be for you to interpret standing up for the human rights of Muslims (and maybe even of non-Muslims too, if you're especially daring), in a country such as Saudi Arabia, as "bashing Muslims"? How does that make even the tiniest bit of sense?
Is that how it works?
- imperialism then: cutting peoples' hands off
- imperialism now: "please don't cut peoples' hands off"
Is that how it works?
Baboon: The majority of the people involved are awful on any other issue than Brexit. I'd add are not wanker Russia Today retweeting conspiracy theory morons. Which is important tbh.
FWIW, the Douma attack was against an apartment building, not a hospital. But what does that matter?! We all know it took place in a BBC studio, with fake bodies, lying zionist MSM up to their tricks again!!.... arrrgghhhhhh
*turns gun on self*
FWIW, the Douma attack was against an apartment building, not a hospital. But what does that matter?! We all know it took place in a BBC studio, with fake bodies, lying zionist MSM up to their tricks again!!.... arrrgghhhhhh
*turns gun on self*
IdleRich
IdleRich
I mean, when I heard about this I thought "Fantastic, a party (movement sorry) that is going to be all-out anti-Brexit" but they haven't said that. They have kinda mumbled something vague about it when they should be shouting it from the rooftops - they would be the only people representing more than half the country in that case, why not try it?
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah, I see loads of Labour supporters attacking these guys - and the attacks are often valid, but they miss the point that there is a problem within Labour. To nick their own quote, they (Labour) need to be for something, not just against the Independent Group - which is what they have become these last few days as far as I can tell.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I mean the attacks from Labour seemed much more vitriolic than from the Tories, May actually said "thanks for all your work" before shitting out something about being moderate. By the way has anyone noticed that moderate no longer means what you thought it means, it's just something that you are and your enemies are very much not?
I like loads of the policy (bar the Brexit elephant in the room of course) but the conspiracy theory minded foreign policy pronouncements just makes me fucking despair. Giving someone like Chris Williamson the boot would be the biggest signal that they're serious about change but that's never gonna happen.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Except among the more, uh, enthusiastic Corbyn supporters, who now use "centrist" in much the same tone of voice you might say "fascist" or "serial child sex offender".