wiz el and koa nothun talked to me and my ex a lot about GNOSIS and INDIVIDUATION and negged me ab my music when i was 15, on alt-shit/ms-paint-collage facebook
feeling lucky they were decent enough to not try to get 15 year old me on their pseudo-thelemite cum and menstrual blood eating bullshit


(alt-shit as in alt-lit)
one of my friends put it, conversely, that cults can and will arise on any basis so eventually someone had to go after The Weird Internet for that cult money
another person on twitter put it that cults are a classic way to grift hipsters


in je ogen waait de wind
like in qu'ran when allah says be/let there be, it is understood that this is not an anthropormorphic utterence, unless you're a salafi. in which case you literally believe allah sits on a throne. in which case give me heroin. But in xtianity in the old testament we don't even know if genesis is talking about yahweh or el, who are both different gods. this gets even more complicated when the lord descends in human form and is then crucified. how is that possible? how can the truth, the total emanation be crucified? thats patent nonsense. barmy!


UFO over easy

online mahjong
hiya :)
re: the differing 'subtypes' of DJ identified in the first couple of pages - 'give them what they want' vs 'give them what they need'
i think sometimes those two positions can be brought a bit closer to each other. it's great when people are open to the unfamiliar as part of a communal experience, with that attitude built into the kind of feedback loop luka talked about. DJing/clubs create that dynamic in a more approachable, populist way than live music can generally. and in electronic music when it's presented in more of a live music format and becomes about an audience going to see a big act play their big tune i become less interested, that band-style 'DJ show' thing.

luka said:
"Another thing to think about is to what degree is our individual experience (I hate the word subjectivity) communicable, shareable?
How is this shared? (If it is shared)"

i think in a rave setting you need a section of the crowd with some pre-existing relationship to the DJ and some sort of shared musical framework. given the right conditions then the section of the crowd who come in without any frame of reference can tap into it as well. the club resident thing was probably good at producing this kind of situation back in the day. a group of friends at a small party hearing one of their mates play can also be brilliant obviously but there's something special about being in a bigger crowd of mostly strangers who are all locked into something.
i still cling on to radio because it helps build relationships with listeners and producers/other DJs. focusing on new music and working with people who are active now also seems like a better way of encouraging a positive dynamic than a 'DJ as historian/collector/expert' approach.
good sound is important. on a shit rig people will lean on the anthems and familiar classics, and get a response through evoking good memories/nostalgia. unfamiliar music on a good system can produce instinctive collective responses that i think can be more powerful.
shitty experiences with security can get in the way of all this, aggressive people in the crowd, all the usual stuff.. a lot of the usual london stuff can make it difficult.

definitely think simon is right that big stages and the performative 'rock show' DJ experience is incompatible with the 'mystical feedback loop'. you could argue that at some of those really big shows, there's more of a connection between the crowd and the production designers/lighting engineers. people can have amazing experiences in those environments but the role of the DJ is more about soundtracking the spectacle, it's less possible to really interact with it. there are exceptions but mostly it's all been designed in advance. most extreme version of this is those crazy EDM shows where big sections of the headliners sets have to be pre-recorded so that they can be synced to visual cues, lights, pyrotechnics, flashing lyrics on big screens during choruses..

droid said:
[production and DJing are] a different set of skills

maybe they require slightly different mentalities too. DJing can be zoomed in or out - drawing connections between things or focusing in on particular details - but it's necessarily outward looking in a way that production isn't.
it's the social and performative aspect of DJing that results in the DJ as icon thing, and that dynamic existed in 1993 as well, whether the music had been fully streamlined for DJing with or not. personally i think all those 'mistakes' in early rave tapes will have had as much to do with the setups - poor or non-existant monitoring, giant rigs dumped in untreated, boomy spaces etc. things just hadn't become as professionalised.


pass the sick bucket
yeah sure, that's exactly what im talking about. when jungle got professionalised towards end of 95 is when the decline started to take place. professionalised music in nearly all genres is dull, with the possible exception of folk trads, and (very very few strains of minimalistic dance styles, certain minoritarian strains of techno/house/garage etc etc...)


pass the sick bucket
my problem with djs is they are precisely not historical enough. obviously there's some good jungle these days, rupture etc, and there was some decent (albeit relatively unknown dnb in the 00s) Sileni, dissident, martsman etc etc.

The problem is you will see the crack madonna twitter talking about djing as an art form but there is literally no aesthetic in dance music apart some idea of er. spiritually healing white middle class people. Why? this ain't paradise garage or even heaven on Charing Cross road. like globalisation has given people untapped potentials to mix keith hudson into florian hecker into mogollar misket. use them rather than john twells discovering shantie-house for fact mag in 2017 because that's honestly cringe. 8ulentina person from club chai sounding like one of them edm clubs in istanbul circa 2008 lmao. those fuckers always kept me awake with the stupid reggaeton hybrids with cheesy egyptian pop melodies and billionaire pop stars pretending to be sassy. look in eastern turkey if you want to have earth shattering sex with anyone you have to be throaty,not sassy. this is rule 1. this is also why western turkey should simply be obliterated, unfortunately i have not been able to convince baba yet. ottoman nostalgia may look harmless on the outside but it is severely hindering a dialectic rupture in world culture.
Last edited:


Well-known member
This is great we're famous again. All the celebrities have returned. It's like studio 54.

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
13th floor elevators version is the best tho yea
100% true, and by a vastly wide margin. seem iirc Dylan himself saying as much.

Roky Erickson's version of "Heroin" is p fucking killer too even w/o a John Cale scrape drone analog thing, just him screeching raw and his guitar.

he changes "I feel just like Jesus's son" to "I feel just like Jesus, son", which should tell you all you need to know

granted this don't have nothing to do with the thread really but get in where you fit in


dgaf ngaf cgaf
Does the DJ control anything other than the sequence of songs written by someone else? Isn't it the music, specifically reverberation, shaking walls, drugs/alcohol, and the social scene that controls how people feel, move, behave, etc. A fascist leader focuses group affect, usually repressed rage and angst, against some easy-to-hate stereotype, and moves people to a specific action. A DJ on the other hand helps create an environment where a person can lose self-awareness, forget their worries, separate from all concerns (even selfish ones), and basically merge with the collective not to commit a specific action, but to dance and drug and be merry and basically do/be nothing.

But wwwwwwait a minute. I can't believe it. It was under our noses the whole time:

MobyGettyImages-489821946-920x584 (4).jpg

Male pattern baldness? Try skinhead fascist. Oh yeah, "hashtag vegan." You know who else was vegan? Adolph fucking Hitler. Case closed.


bandz ahoy
it's like one of those gritty channel 4 films in the 80's. i'm some skinhead nf bloke having a secret prison affair with a marxist kurd. it'd come on right after richard whitely's countdown.

Missed all this stuff on page 3 or whatever it is (already forgotten, thanks weed)