I was thinking about posting that in here. I'll find the thread.
Hades Presents: MJ vs. Prince
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I was thinking about posting that in here. I'll find the thread.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n12/ian-penman/the-question-of-u
Great choice of epigraphs:
"Assiduously and without much constraint, he conditioned his personality, making it as impenetrable and resourceful, as submissive and difficult, as it had to be for the sake of his mission."
-- Walter Benjamin, ‘On the Image of Proust’
"To create in myself a nation with its own politics, parties and revolutions, and to be all of it, everything, to be God in the real pantheism of this people-I."
-- Fernando Pessoa, The Book of Disquiet
"It is the first or Christian name that counts, that is what makes one be as they are."
-- Gertrude Stein, writing about Ulysses S. Grant
Great choice of epigraphs:
"Assiduously and without much constraint, he conditioned his personality, making it as impenetrable and resourceful, as submissive and difficult, as it had to be for the sake of his mission."
-- Walter Benjamin, ‘On the Image of Proust’
"To create in myself a nation with its own politics, parties and revolutions, and to be all of it, everything, to be God in the real pantheism of this people-I."
-- Fernando Pessoa, The Book of Disquiet
"It is the first or Christian name that counts, that is what makes one be as they are."
-- Gertrude Stein, writing about Ulysses S. Grant
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
the label told him there's no way it would work because it has no bass
you have to wonder how different things would be if more people were given artistic freedom throughout the last 70 odd years
you have to wonder how different things would be if more people were given artistic freedom throughout the last 70 odd years
sufi
lala
Prince could only ever exist in space not already occupied by Michael, in some ways an anti-michael. Michael so stifled and uptight - insinuating through the medium of zombies, bad when we all knew he was good (except he turned out to be bad), Prince gleefully sleazy and transmitting direct style and wierdness
I was a small-ish kid whan thriller and billie jean came out = i learnt them and about them from other kids. they were released with these amazing videos and there had been nothing like them before - kids acted out the moves because there was no way to actually watch the video on tv or anywhere. i don't think i even knew mj was black, but his whole teen horror image was clearly inappropriate for little lads like me and woebot and so was irresistable.
mj was part of the top echelon of pop stardom with queen, the sex pistols, abba. massive like a geographical feature
but tbh and i'm sad to say it there was nothing that wasnt disappointing after that first explosion, though there's no denying that when he died it was a global fiesta like only lady di
mj was inside the machine, he worked hard because he knew no other way, prince strove and achieved glory thru sheer napoleonic determination
Occupying a spot on the next level of the kid pop astral firmament, and arriving in next Smash Hits magazine historical era, right alongside Madonna in the pantheon, was Prince - everything Michael couldnt express, resplendent. Michael was distant, Prince was a more immediate, raw, and spontaneous, controversial even!
He also showed up with a 1-2 of proper BBC Top of the Pops hits, but crucially his albums were brilliant and fit onto cassettes - i had one which would have contained 2 Prince albums, whereas i don't think i ever went out of my way to bootleg mj - he was always just there
Michael is a historical figure in a way that Prince is not - the cult of mj is a messianic mass stan, michael's tunes are in a deep part of our collective global consciousness, and he's bigger even than pop, like maradona. Prince is a sparkling cosmic prism of space angel dust spinning and hurtling through the heavens - someone please post the yt where he just magicks his whole guitar into thin air
I was a small-ish kid whan thriller and billie jean came out = i learnt them and about them from other kids. they were released with these amazing videos and there had been nothing like them before - kids acted out the moves because there was no way to actually watch the video on tv or anywhere. i don't think i even knew mj was black, but his whole teen horror image was clearly inappropriate for little lads like me and woebot and so was irresistable.
mj was part of the top echelon of pop stardom with queen, the sex pistols, abba. massive like a geographical feature
but tbh and i'm sad to say it there was nothing that wasnt disappointing after that first explosion, though there's no denying that when he died it was a global fiesta like only lady di
mj was inside the machine, he worked hard because he knew no other way, prince strove and achieved glory thru sheer napoleonic determination
Occupying a spot on the next level of the kid pop astral firmament, and arriving in next Smash Hits magazine historical era, right alongside Madonna in the pantheon, was Prince - everything Michael couldnt express, resplendent. Michael was distant, Prince was a more immediate, raw, and spontaneous, controversial even!
He also showed up with a 1-2 of proper BBC Top of the Pops hits, but crucially his albums were brilliant and fit onto cassettes - i had one which would have contained 2 Prince albums, whereas i don't think i ever went out of my way to bootleg mj - he was always just there
Michael is a historical figure in a way that Prince is not - the cult of mj is a messianic mass stan, michael's tunes are in a deep part of our collective global consciousness, and he's bigger even than pop, like maradona. Prince is a sparkling cosmic prism of space angel dust spinning and hurtling through the heavens - someone please post the yt where he just magicks his whole guitar into thin air
Leo
Well-known member
Wayne Jarrett also did a version on Kaya, by it's not on YouTube.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
lmao jesus fucking christ
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
this on the other hand while still a generalization has a ring of truth
but the extroversion is also a substitute for emotionality
the British repress their emotions, we sublimate them into outward expression
Fight Club (self as collection of things and/or external traits) and American Psycho ("I simply am not there...myself is fabricated") both address this by taking it to logical/absurd conclusion
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
there's also a deep, persistent strain of religiosity that Europeans (and American coastal liberals tbh) often completely fail to understand/account for
one particular iteration, or rather a cluster of them, run prominently and inextricably through Black American music, the examples being innumerable
I/others have discussed this before - the dialectic tension between spiritual and temporal ecstasy
"dearly beloved, we are gathered here to get through this thing called life"
to which the answer "in this life, you're on your own" so "let's go crazy"
one particular iteration, or rather a cluster of them, run prominently and inextricably through Black American music, the examples being innumerable
I/others have discussed this before - the dialectic tension between spiritual and temporal ecstasy
"dearly beloved, we are gathered here to get through this thing called life"
to which the answer "in this life, you're on your own" so "let's go crazy"
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
and of course, his later literal conversion
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
idk exactly but Soft Cell were doing Memorabilia with Cindy Ecstasy in 81 so presumably by then at least among the elites
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I do agree that Prince (mostly), despite the eroticism/sleaziness etc, isn't really body music in the way disco is
it's too rock, the grooves too stripped down + straightforward
it's thrusting pelvis music
Tipper Gore losing her mind over the lyrics to Darling Nikki
it's too rock, the grooves too stripped down + straightforward
it's thrusting pelvis music
Tipper Gore losing her mind over the lyrics to Darling Nikki
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
very solid observation
I love Wiley the way I love Prince
in the same way, Wiley always sounds only like himself
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
sorry I can't let this pass
the ultimate transcendent pop figure, and possibly (as an artist) a force for some kind of global good, if you believe pop music can be such, OK
but this is complete insanity, even by the standards of hyperbole concerning a childhood hero
like it's such a crazy statement that it becomes hard to trust any other opinion a person might have about him
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
tho I do agree that MJ can't simply be reduced to a product manufactured almost entirely by others
the endpoint of a manufacturing process certainly, but one that he was fully involved in
I thought these ideas of authenticity had already been completely dusted in the great poptimist wars of the early 00s?
like, Prince was vastly closer to being an auteur
does that make him "better" than MJ? no
I prefer Prince. I in general prefer deeply idiosyncratic auteurs to populists, tho I do like plenty of pop (I've softened in my old age).
the endpoint of a manufacturing process certainly, but one that he was fully involved in
I thought these ideas of authenticity had already been completely dusted in the great poptimist wars of the early 00s?
like, Prince was vastly closer to being an auteur
does that make him "better" than MJ? no
I prefer Prince. I in general prefer deeply idiosyncratic auteurs to populists, tho I do like plenty of pop (I've softened in my old age).
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
luka mentioned the Electrifying Mojo above
there's the famous May quote Detroit techno being "George Clinton + Kraftwerk stuck in an elevator"
Prince is in there too, but especially with auteurs it makes me think of Drexciya
it's not immediately obvious - Drexciya is perhaps the most conceptually anti-erotic dance music ever
but it's in the fast, stripped-down grooves and the sense of the alien as well as the liminal
Prince didn't explicitly conceptualize an Erotic City but it exists de facto in his work
every bit as fully realized as Drexciya's underwater metropolis
you might posit Drexciya as "Prince and 1983 A Merman I Turn to Be trapped in an elevator"
there's the famous May quote Detroit techno being "George Clinton + Kraftwerk stuck in an elevator"
Prince is in there too, but especially with auteurs it makes me think of Drexciya
it's not immediately obvious - Drexciya is perhaps the most conceptually anti-erotic dance music ever
but it's in the fast, stripped-down grooves and the sense of the alien as well as the liminal
Prince didn't explicitly conceptualize an Erotic City but it exists de facto in his work
every bit as fully realized as Drexciya's underwater metropolis
you might posit Drexciya as "Prince and 1983 A Merman I Turn to Be trapped in an elevator"