Reagan Rock and The Cold War.

[padraig (u.s.)]

yeah that's fine. i was going to say, the fantasies are both relatively harmless and pretty common.

the U.S. has always been one of those all things to all people deals - reinvent yourself

and it's true that image, including and possibly especially self-image, trumps (no pun, tho accurate) reality

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

so for example, America seeing itself as a nation of bodybuilders supersedes its reality as a nation divided between yuppie wellness + widespread obesity etc

 

[luka]

I got the idea for this thread sitting in Bang Bang Oriental foodhall in Colindale. They were playing what seemed like Chinese language covers of western songs but it was that disconcerting thing where it reminds you of something, but you have no idea what. Perhaps they weren't covers. One of them was a Chinese version of Reagan Rock.

 

[luka]

so for example, America seeing itself as a nation of bodybuilders supersedes its reality as a nation divided between yuppie wellness + widespread obesity etc

I think for me the interesting thing is more a link between bodybuilding and military values. This civilian as cold warrior thing. The rise of Stallone and Swartzeneggar etc the place muscles had in '80s America.

And the parallel with today, when muscles have made a comeback after being very unfashionable and gross.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Notions of masculinity in Reagan’s America

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Reagan rock to me is: the death of dreams, there is no such thing as society (qua Thatcher), the musical tastes of Patrick Bateman

Huey Lewis + the News, Robert Palmer

Tom Cruise in Cocktail

and you're right about: gated drums, saxophones, etc

music designed by and for cocaine

 

[luka]

Also with a particular understanding of masculinity and social relations. Might is right. The 'arms' race.

 

[luka]

Notions of masculinity in Reagan’s America

Snap.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I think for me the interesting thing is more a link between bodybuilding and military values. This civilian as cold warrior thing. The rise of Stallone and Swartzeneggar etc the place muscles had in '80s America.

see now this, yes

not bodybuilding specifically - which is a thing unto itself - but yes the link between literal and symbolic muscularity

the hypermasculine, or rather the image of the hypermasculine

 

[luka]

Notions of masculinity in Reagan’s America

This whole current obsession with the 'alpha' and with dominance and linking that to the size of your biceps. Your ability to physically intimidate those around you.

 

[luka]

see now this, yes

not bodybuilding specifically - which is a thing unto itself - but yes the link between literal and symbolic muscularity

the hypermasculine, or rather the image of the hypermasculine

When I say bodybuilding i just mean lifting for hypertrophy and bulk not necessarily the competitive 'sport'/beauty pageant.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

one difference between the muscularity of the 80s and now is artificiality, or perceived artificiality

80s muscles are steroidal, slathered in baby oil (that part is directly from bodybuilding), etc

the muscles of now are Crossfit, functional strength, etc

this being something I actually know about

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

that's not say people now don't use steroids (or whatever else), even in more "natural" areas of fitness, they absolutely do

but the muscles of the 80s are more symbolic even when they're on actual people - no one expects to look like Arnold

the muscles of now are attainable, or at least can be aspired to

see also the turn in action movies toward more realistic shooting

in the 80s everyone is always spraying a million rounds everywhere from the biggest guns imaginable, etc

now everyone has that "tacticool" thing going on

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I guess 80s muscles to me are an almost complete symbolic fantasy in every sense

most actors then didn't look like Sly/Arnie etc; they were outlandish figureds

now pretty much everyone looks like that in every action movie

not quite the size but the physique, definition, etc

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

see also the "fakeness" of 80s professional wrestling - ground zero for steroidal physiques - giving way to mixed martial arts, physiques of cutting to make weight

(tho professional wrestling has remained popular as ever by basically embracing the meta of its own fakeness)

 

[droid]

 

[luka]

Reagan rock to me is: the death of dreams, there is no such thing as society (qua Thatcher), the musical tastes of Patrick Bateman

Huey Lewis + the News, Robert Palmer

Tom Cruise in Cocktail

and you're right about: gated drums, saxophones, etc

music designed by and for cocaine

What this doesn't get across for me is the Cold War angle. The belligerence, the pugnacity to steal a word off Reynolds. The full throated rasp. The home front.

And also the noble prole angle. The working man and his budweisers.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

real fighters - or soldiers - don't look like Arnold in Conan the Barbarian

that kind of size requires an impossibly strict regimen of lifting and even more important, diet

for example, I watched a short documentary about Brian Shaw (4x World's Strongest Man) and he eats 20,000 calories a day

or look up The Rock's diet; it's fucking bonkers

The Rock actually being the rare example of a modern throwback to that kind of impossible 80s physique

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

the Cold War angle

consumerism was just as much a part of the Cold War as belligerent posturing

belligerent consumerism in fact, the weaponization of consumerism

toppling the Soviet Union with demand for (yes) rock music, Levi's, McDonald's, etc

the militant consumerism of American Psycho, as famously soundtracked by Huey Lewis + the News, Phil Collins, etc

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Tom Cruise is one epitome of that

all bright white teeth locked into an omnipresent smile that never reaches the eyes

Christian Bale in fact based his performance partly on seeing Tom Cruise on talk shows, that emptiness behind the smile

(and strangely enough, in the book Bateman lives in the same building as Tom Cruise and they have a very awkward elevator encounter where Bateman can't remember the title of Cocktail; "You were great in that film...Bartender")