mixed_biscuits

_________________________
So, they would be happy for Bill to plough money into vaccines, provided they're not then forced to take them because Bill wants to recoup costs and make a packet on top from shares he bought earlier.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The right don't mind someone getting rich as long as they're not going to boss them around
The right doesn't care about anyone getting "bossed around" (or incarcerated, oppressed, killed), as long as it's not them, and perhaps other people who look more or less like them.

I've lost count of how many times on social media I've seen white American conservatives - the kind of people who have stickers on their truck saying LIVE FREE OR DIE and DON'T TREAD ON ME! - say stuff like "Black people wouldn't get shot by the police so much if they just complied with authority at all times."
 

wg-

Well-known member
If you remove the vaccine nonsense from the discussion i think you can summarise current situation by saying there are huge parts of the world's population- & this is not just a uk/us problem- who do not feel represensented by any mainstream party and thus begin to coalesce around other totemic figures and ideas in loose coalition of viewpoints

The traditional left in this country are being forcibly removed from Labour in huge numbers, or disenfranchised by the lurch to the centre when it needs some real bollock. So you end up with the RMT or whatever somehow becoming more representative of the working feller than the party of labour itself. There are probably plenty of morally Conservative people in these professions striking because they're getting fucked, too

Then you have people like Biscuits are "right" leaning but not necessarily sitting there wanking off the tories- they're the party who have implemented all the societal restrictions during covid that they think are shite, after all- so they end up falling into this libertarian concept as opposed to a traditional middle england conservative viewpoint

Really both are the same thing- the system is shit and failing- but no-one has been able to identify or create a movement that encapsulates personal freedoms and anti-corporate sentiment yet

Meanwhile the culture war continues to be rammed down your throat as a distractionary technique

Grouping in the batshit racist twitter people as representative of any real world majority is a terrible decision at any point
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Really both are the same thing- the system is shit and failing- but no-one has been able to identify or create a movement that encapsulates personal freedoms and anti-corporate sentiment yet
That movement was basically the covid protest movement, which had people from all over the shop, politically speaking.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
If you remove the vaccine nonsense from the discussion i think you can summarise current situation by saying there are huge parts of the world's population- & this is not just a uk/us problem- who do not feel represensented by any mainstream party and thus begin to coalesce around other totemic figures and ideas in loose coalition of viewpoints

The traditional left in this country are being forcibly removed from Labour in huge numbers, or disenfranchised by the lurch to the centre when it needs some real bollock. So you end up with the RMT or whatever somehow becoming more representative of the working feller than the party of labour itself. There are probably plenty of morally Conservative people in these professions striking because they're getting fucked, too

Then you have people like Biscuits are "right" leaning but not necessarily sitting there wanking off the tories- they're the party who have implemented all the societal restrictions during covid that they think are shite, after all- so they end up falling into this libertarian concept as opposed to a traditional middle england conservative viewpoint

Really both are the same thing- the system is shit and failing- but no-one has been able to identify or create a movement that encapsulates personal freedoms and anti-corporate sentiment yet

Meanwhile the culture war continues to be rammed down your throat as a distractionary technique

Grouping in the batshit racist twitter people as representative of any real world majority is a terrible decision at any point
I hear what you're saying, but I think the idea of "huge numbers of people not feeling represented by mainstream parties" is abundantly contradicted by the fact that Trump got 47% of the popular vote in 2020, and the year before that the Tories won the biggest landslide since Thatcher's first win in 1979. So both parties have undergone a massive shift towards reactionary populism. If you could go back in time 20 years and tell people that in the near future, Trump would be POTUS and Johnson PMUK, and that Roe vs Wade would be overturned and that the UK would vote to leave the EU on the basis of some racist lies about Turkey and the promise of jam tomorrow, they'd have thought you were nuts.

Yet these are now the dominant, mainstream factions within their respective parties, and what remains (pun intended) of the old guard are reviled as traitors.

You also can't extricate it from "vaccine nonsense" because that's a key symptom of a general turn against science, medicine, and an evidence-based view of the world. It's the worldview you need in order to convince yourself that Trump won in 2020, or that the BBC is part of a "left-wing elite."
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Everyone on the left was anti Vax when trump was pushing it! Silly goose. We 'bember.
There is literally no statement so idiotic you won't make it, is there?

Go on, show me a prominent left-wing figure taking an anti-vaxx position. (And no, The Other Corbyn is not "left-wing", lol.)
 

Murphy

cat malogen
Just found out I’m a pharaoh and this is his glyph

T21

N37

 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
And you're not seriously saying Trump was "pushing" vaccination, are you? He quietly admitted that he'd got the shot and a lot of his nuttier fans disowned him, as I recall.
 
And you're not seriously saying Trump was "pushing" vaccination, are you? He quietly admitted that he'd got the shot and a lot of his nuttier fans disowned him, as I recall.

Operation warp speed, May 15 2020?
And the house Democrats investigation off it soon after. Followed by the democrats mandating the same vaccines developed in operation warp speed.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Everyone on the left was anti Vax when trump was pushing it! Silly goose. We 'bember.

yeah, that's 100% wrong. not only did democrats here always support a covid vaccine, but after Biden was elected, he made a point of crediting Trump's Operation Warp Speed for making it possible.
 

Leo

Well-known member
What in the Wikipedia revisionism are you talking about?

with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. I live here, I talk to actual humans who live here instead of just reading shit online. democrats writ large were in favor of a vaccine. there were some dumbass democratic politicians who knee-jerk opposed anything trump did (similar to what their GOP counterparts do with Biden), but it was never the broad consensus.
 

droid

Well-known member
The 'oh why don't the left oppose the tyranny of public health restrictions?' canard has been thrown around by every kind of idiot over the last couple of years, but the explanation is no mystery.

Even the most radical anarchist who opposes virtually every type of hierarchy and authority and has a fundamental distrust of governments and the state recognises legitimate authority. That is the authority of the surgeon to operate, the pilot to fly the plane or the engineer to build a bridge. Combine this with the collectivist ethos that is a core tenet of every left wing ideology and we have a scenario where public health measures designed to protect the community at the expense of individual rights, whilst not ideal are seen as rooted in compassion and the protection of the collective and as such, not radically contradictory to left values.

Contrast this with the libertarianist ideas expressed here and in the GBD and which have now come to dominate policy around covid. There should be no collective response, any attempt at mitigation is a dire affront to individual rights, fuck society, fuck my neighbours, fuck the old and the sick, they are the 'dry kindling', the weak useless eaters who were going to die anyway. This is the root of right wing political protest to public health; extreme, ultra-right wing eugenicist libertarianism, a philosophy that violently rejects even the concept of the collective, let alone the protection of the collective at the expense of the individual - and it is no coincidence that much of the funding for this project has come from extreme right wing libertarian sources like the Kochs.
 
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