Keir Starmer

[version]

I have no idea. I'm not "the majority of people" and don't claim to speak for them; I was just giving some concrete, justified reasons why I think their performance has been pretty crap so far.

I also think you need to be careful with assuming you know what "the majority of people" think. It's very easy for news orgs to present vox-pop bits that make it sound like your average Brit thinks the country is being overrun by asylum seekers, but they could be pushing that line either because they're right-wing and they simply support Farage's position; or, from a progressive POV, to drum up a bit of a moral panic about how everyone in Britain is a terrible racist (except them and their enlightened viewers/listeners).

... which would validate my apportioning a large part of the blame to the press. Also, goes back to the arguments in 'An Emergent Order' about nobody really being able to know what's going on so we can't discuss anything.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Also, goes back to the arguments in 'An Emergent Order' about nobody really being able to know what's going on so we can't discuss anything.

Well that's never stopped us before, has it?

 

[Benny Bunter]

The press is what it is. You could 'blame' the right wing press for whipping up outrage, but you could equally blame the left wing press and the BBC for complacency in burying its head in the sand over contentious issues like immigration, not listening to small c conservatives, and driving away normal (not racist) people who may have genuinely valid complaints towards Reform.

 

[version]

Well that's never stopped us before, has it?

Maybe it should.

 

[pattycakes_]

Then what

 

[version]

The press is what it is. You could 'blame' the right wing press for whipping up outrage, but you could equally blame the left wing press and the BBC for complacency in burying its head in the sand over contentious issues like immigration, not listening to small c conservatives, and driving away normal (not racist) people who may have genuinely valid complaints towards Reform.

I don't think it would be as big an issue if the press didn't fan the flames all the time. How many of the people moaning are personally effected by it and how many are basing their opinion on reports and stories they've read?

 

[Benny Bunter]

I don't think it would be as big an issue if the press didn't fan the flames all the time. How many of the people moaning are personally effected by it and how many are basing their opinion on reports and stories they've read?

There's probably quite a lot of both.

 

[version]

Then what

Who knows.

 

[version]

There's probably quite a lot of both.

What are you basing this on?

 

[Mr. Tea]

I don't think it would be as big an issue if the press didn't fan the flames all the time. How many of the people moaning are personally effected by it and how many are basing their opinion on reports and stories they've read?

Are you prepared to at least entertain the possibility that some people are expressing disaffection with the government because of things that are concretely affecting them? Maybe they're pissed off that getting a GP appointment is still has hard as it ever was under the last government. Or that their disability benefit is being frozen or cut. Or that a big field where they used to walk their dog is now a building site. Or that the sea always smells of sewage when they go to their local beach while their water bills keep going up every year. Or...

 

[Benny Bunter]

Alright then versión, there's nobody cheesed off with the effects of mass immigration, and if there is they've just seen it on gb news and are either racist or stupid or both.

 

[Benny Bunter]

You're lacking a bit of balance iyam

 

[thirdform]

One of my uncles voted for Brexit and now says he regrets it, that he didn't know what he was voting for and that it's been a disaster. He also says he'll probably vote for Farage at the next election.

so he wants farage to bring turbocorbyn into existence?

I have no idea. I'm not "the majority of people" and don't claim to speak for them; I was just giving some concrete, justified reasons why I think their performance has been pretty crap so far.

I also think you need to be careful with assuming you know what "the majority of people" think. It's very easy for news orgs to present vox-pop bits that make it sound like your average Brit thinks the country is being overrun by asylum seekers, but they could be pushing that line either because they're right-wing and they simply support Farage's position; or, from a progressive POV, to drum up a bit of a moral panic about how everyone in Britain is a terrible racist (except them and their enlightened viewers/listeners).

there is no such thing as a majority of people.

 

[version]

Are you prepared to at least entertain the possibility that some people are expressing disaffection with the government because of things that are concretely affecting them? Maybe they're pissed off that getting a GP appointment is still has hard as it ever was under the last government. Or that their disability benefit is being frozen or cut. Or that a big field where they used to walk their dog is now a building site. Or that the sea always smells of sewage when they go to their local beach while their water bills keep going up every year. Or...

I am, but we're talking specifically about the success of Reform and that isn't explained by the above because people concerned about things like the environment, the NHS and disability benefits are unlikely to be fans of Farage. Any of them who are have either been misled by the media or they've become obsessed with immigration or the man himself to the point of those things no longer being a pressing concern.

 

[version]

You're lacking a bit of balance iyam

Where's the balance supposed to come from if we can't trust anything presented by the media?

 

[Mr. Tea]

I am, but we're talking specifically about the success of Reform and that isn't explained by the above because people concerned about things like the environment, the NHS and disability benefits are unlikely to be fans of Farage. Any of them who are have been misled by the media or they've become obsessed with immigration or the man himself because his policies and positions are extremely damaging to things like the environment, the NHS and disability benefits.

Bear in mind that voting intention polls never include the Don't Know's and None Of The Aboves, so if an increasing number of people who previously voted either Labour or Tory are saying they might not vote at all or haven't made their mind up, then that will boost the percentages of the other parties. (Note that the Lib Dems and Greens are doing pretty well, too.)

 

[version]

Bear in mind that voting intention polls never include the Don't Know's and None Of The Aboves, so if an increasing number of people who previously voted either Labour or Tory are saying they might not vote at all or haven't made their mind up, then that will boost the percentages of the other parties. (Note that the Lib Dems and Greens are doing pretty well, too.)

You trust polling then and don't think it might be tweaked the way you claimed the media might be?

 

[thirdform]

fucking hell.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Where's the balance supposed to come from if we can't trust anything presented by the media?

I dunno, read both sides and read critically, try and keep an open mind I suppose.

 

[version]

The opinions I have are from engaging with both sides. Have you actually watched GB News or read The Telegraph or listened to Farage? They're just talking nonsense all the time. The same goes for their supporters.