The Culture War

[padraig (u.s.)]

Does it matter that Rubio isn't quite as much of a sycophant as Graham?

Leo has it down exact

if Trump stays in power - however that comes to pass - it doesn't. if he's no longer in power, it does.

without Trump in office, there's a chance to salvage some of the wreckage of the last 4 - and more broadly, the last 15 - years

not a great chance, but something

I would never defend Rubio beyond saying it's possible to deal with people like him in a way it simply is not with MAGA people

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

Why would you want to join a party whose members hate you

In the middle of the 19th century this country tore itself apart for 15+ years in a way that makes this look tame in comparison

and somehow recovered to a level of functionality with some level of shared values

until fairly recently the government of the United States was, if highly imperfect, more or less functional and able to reach compromise decisions

which doesn't mean it will return to that state [something something various uncanny analogies to late Republican Rome]

but it does suggest that it's a reasonable possibility, not some impossible fantasy

 

[constant escape]

Yeah I can't speak to what about our current situation is unprecedented (just haven't learned enough), but I'm inclined to agree with you, that it is possible.

I was just probing, regarding what democrats (regular people, not representatives or senators etc) could do to ease the transition/rehabilitation for any would-be republican defectors.

 

[Leo]

it's funny, sometimes voters change their ways based on their own life changes. I've seen long-time democrats become more conservative after starting their own successful business and becoming part of the 1% or thereabouts, suddenly concerned with "fiscal responsibility". what they once viewed as worthwhile social programs become wasteful spending and government handouts subside by their hard-earned tax dollars. and then of course, there's the old saying "a republican is a democrat who has been mugged".

on the other hand, I've also seen former republican voters who have gone Dem once they've had to rely on -- and get to full appreciate -- some sort of government assistance. or maybe they have a gay family member who gets married and eventually realize all that's wrong with the GOP position there.

 

[luka]

this Adele thing is a good example of the differences between the US and England

https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Notting%20Hill%20Carnival%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

 

[Leo]

so, is common sentiment that she's appreciating or appropriating the culture?

 

[Leo]

comments on that thread seem to cover both.

 

[constant escape]

Seems the US, as outside commenters here, are claiming appropriation, while locals (seems she herself is a local, but maybe I misunderstood) are claiming that the carnival embraces the sharing of cultural aspects such as that hairstyle. But yeah there did seem to be confusion, and the divisions were not so clear.

but @luka you're saying this is commonplace/exemplary of UK/US differences (edit: US/Britain differences)?

 

[WashYourHands]

this Adele thing is a good example of the differences between the US and Britain

 

[john eden]

Adele was born in the 1980s in Tottenham, so I don't think this is the same as Tarquin from Dorset setting up a dubstep label called "Jah Collie Weed Iteousness". Or the guy I saw wearing a rasta wig at a festival doing "hilarious" dances whilst Horace Andy was performing.

 

[john eden]

 

[john eden]

That was 2009...

 

[luka]

Let's say Wales and England.

 

[luka]

Scotland and NI still very much monocultural. Different worlds completely.

 

[john eden]

Bi-cultural in NI and Glasgow afaik. @WashYourHands might say different?

 

[WashYourHands]

The old tribalisms are still present, but the younger generations either side of the Irish Sea are illustrating the future as it could yet be. Look at the work the Alliance Party did to bridge divides during our wee Brexit fiasco. People might object that they’re too centrist, but anything that can curb the worst excesses of the DUP and C-IRA is to be applauded. No-one wants to regress back to a time of monstrosities apart from the lunatic fringe. Nevertheless, I’ll still never sing God Save the Queen or The Sash.

 

[luka]

Is an external enemy necessary to prevent societies turning on one another?

 

[luka]

Do aggressive impulses need something to bite onto?

 

[luka]

"Race is the queen of the 'classes': but in Europe today it's power is very slight- for one reason, because it lacks all organisation or even reality. But there are less fundamental ones, but usually far more present to our consciousness in everyday life, needing the greatest attention, and involving a variety of ritual.

The other 'classes' it is true, have never been recognised as of the same standing as race. As a casus belli they have been inferior to it. none of these other differences, or the membership of any of the other classes, was recognised as a pretext for taking life. Race or nationality, on the other hand, has, in the modern world, been recognised as a sanction for murder by every State. But this sanction usually had only 'nationality' to repose on, which was a very different thing to race. Marx, with his 'class war' indirectly demonstrated the absurdity of these privileges of race- especially when it was not race at all. The success of his system has shown how easy it is to substitute, in a disorganised, non-racially founded society, any 'class' for the classical 'racial' unit of the State.

Once 'war' between classes started spreading, from the teaching of Marx, it did not stop at social 'class' naturally....."

Wyndham Lewis
The Art of Being Ruled

 

[sufi]

https://thecritic.co.uk/shifting-sands-of-loyalties-nick-cohen/ Culture Warrior Nick Cohen mixing it up as usual