Resistance is Futile.

pattycakes_

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
constant escape said:
One of the things I'm interested in exploring is an experimental handling of emotion. I'm no Trekkie (yet), but what I'm describing could, perhaps, be likened tonally/ontologically to some kind of Vulcan being.
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Not wanting to shut this down at all, but I'm not sure I can envision Spock in sequinned spandex, sporting a bouffant and flinging himself around like he's got the Lord running through his veins. We need a Prince or a Chaka every now and then. Maybe us proles can all be Vulcans though.

The kind of subject-qua-processor theory is the stuff I'm gearing around, but I do wonder if there is any poetic, or aesthetic potential to it. Or is all of that sacrificed, or at least diminished, as we relegate pathos to the second-string?

I don't believe so. I think if art has persisted this far, then it has a function, and that function does not necessarily seem to be obsolete - even if we, as subjects, were to transition from individual to dividual, from humans-as-people to processors-as-humans-as-people. More acutely incarnating cosmic organization. The accumulatio of the information age (forgive me).
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We covered some of that in dematerilisation. One point I kept bringing up in there was the need we humans have for the human. We sometimes need the real(tm) Virtual just doesn't cut it with certain things. Like real food vs mass produced, processed shit. That same principle goes for all sorts. I get that we need to evolve but I'm not sure this is part of that. Or could ever really be evolved from. I can see how intellectuals could think that reality into existence based on logic and whatnot but I don't agree and it will ultimately just be a thought exercise. And have at it by all means. I just don't think I'll be boarding that particular spaceship. I think it goes against the cosmos and its forces (yup.) i.e. the things being talked about in the psychedelic thread. Our current strain of evolution has been forced upon us by the Internet, devices and touch screens etc, and it's playing into our sense of detachment from what was once very much inarguably 'real.' Some things are timelessly real and don't evolve. The need for human connection is one of those things. Imo. I don't buy that we need to embrace the singularity. Nor am I against it. Its subjective.

What about the aesthetics of complexity? The Mandelbrot set? Mathematics as autotelic, as the pinnacle of beauty, of aesthetics? Perfection?
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I'd rather skip that. [edit] actually there's plenty of space for that stuff. It can be great. And I'm all for 100% computer generated music if it's good. Imagine you could tell it to make you a tune based on Model 500 and Can.

What art can we produce when we are no longer the vanguard/torchbearers of intelligent matter?
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Simple things. Stories. Things that make you whistle. Do you prefer the handmade trinket or the conveyor belt one?
 
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luka

luka

Well-known member
like i can understand patty when he wants to say MJ is the naked shining truth. a genius in the impossible saintly flesh. he sort of is. but hes also, as you say, hyper aware of his effects and is rigidly in control of them
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
you can see both things at once. the halo and the scared child not wanting to get wallopped by his psycho dad
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
same thing with brutalised children like floyd mayweather and roy jones jnr. its instinctive because beaten into them. theyre outside the matrix, pure flowing instinct BECAUSE of the way their domineering father brutalised them into it
 
constant escape

constant escape

winter withered, warm
@entertainment
Does inauthentic pathos amount to the same thing as a heavily doubted/audited pathos? Perhaps genuine pathos, at least some of it, can't withstand the sheer degree of doubt we subject ourselves to, and is eviscerated and hollowed by skepticism, thus left mistakable for hollow and inauthentic pathos? Surely, we can conceive of genuine pathos short of saint-like pathos.

By inauthentic pathos, do you mean... not sure how to phrase this... but a LARPing of certain feelings/sentiments? Because they were glamorized in some other context?

I get the sense that we throw the baby out with the bathwater when we discredit pathos to be inauthentic in its entirety - although I suspect I am just misunderstanding you. Do you have in mind the general disillusionment/irony associated with postmodernism? I'm inclined to frame that kind of development (ambition/zeal unto jaded inertia) as a phase, but by no means the final phase. Anyone here look into metamodernism? Really sorted a lot out for me, namely how to orient yourself within your world so as to mitigate both paralyzing skepticism and horse-blindered belief. Not nearly as familiar with the discourses of modernism or postmodernism.

Although maybe I'm just working with a different, perhaps faulty, definition of pathos: I just mean it as all emotion, as opposed to unperturbed neutrality, indifferent cognition. Slight irritation qualifies as pathos, here, just as does ethereal, precipitous love.

Also, I'm not as familiar as I should be with pop and how it fits, or doesn't fit, into larger artistic developments/categories, so maybe that already does answer many of my questions. Or music in general, for that matter - just out of my element, as of now.


@pattycakes_

A vulcan proletariat would be cool, if nothing else.

And I see your point about the human needing the human - I, for one, am constantly overlooking that. Perhaps this position I'm taking (subject-qua-processor) is just a phase in a larger movement - exploring the extremes so as to maximize maneuverability, to grok the widest possible range of subjectivities. My point is: I'm not sure I would get on that spaceship either. I wouldn't disagree with you about it going against the cosmos, seeing as we are just as much a part of it as anything. To renounce the human, arguably, is to renounce it all.

Part of this was a response to the calls for speculative/creative futures of culture and aesthetics, but a lot of it comes from the core of how I currently see things.
 
pattycakes_

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
luka said:
like i can understand patty when he wants to say MJ is the naked shining truth. a genius in the impossible saintly flesh. he sort of is. but hes also, as you say, hyper aware of his effects and is rigidly in control of them
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Stunting trauma both obliterates and encases childlike innocence in amber. This allows people like MJ to tap into the magic. They didn't grow up the same as everyone else and get all jaded like padraig (u.s.)
 
entertainment

entertainment

Well-known member
luka said:
i think theres nuturally some fuzziness when we try and say what we 'beleive'
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I think most of the time, who we are, our self, isn't really accessible to conscious articulation like that, to put into clear formulated beliefs. We try to put something into words and see if it fits and that's not a smooth process.

But there is always a felt connection to guide you. Some things resonate and some don't. You read something and it just connects with something deep inside you, an unmistakeble authentic vibration inside you, it tells you yes, this is me. That is the authentic you.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
entertainment said:
I think most of the time, who we are, our self, isn't really accessible to conscious articulation like that, to put into clear formulated beliefs. We try to put something into words and see if it fits and that's not a smooth process.

But there is always a felt connection to guide you. Some things resonate and some don't. You read something and it just connects with something deep inside you, an unmistakeble authentic vibration inside you, it tells you yes, this is me. That is the authentic you.
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well its volatile. what i say today i dont believe tomorrow
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
A FEW FACTS.
What is true in condition a, deflates, becomes comical
Under condition b. Is still true, but not here.
King at point a in gyre, fool at point b.
Don’t hold tongue, wait too long, and it won’t be true anymore,
Spit it out while it’s still hot. Act.
The words can become hollow when the sentence is still in the mouth,
Trail off, embarrassment.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
which is how music works or doesnt work. can they make you believe it was true for them when they uttered it
 
entertainment

entertainment

Well-known member
luka said:
well its volatile. what i say today i dont believe tomorrow
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my theory was that

this instability is amplified by the internet identity logic. detachment, shapelessness, smokes and mirrors. all the possible you's, just a click away.

what lacks is a fixed center, which is what you have in the real you offline
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
MY FEELING IS THAT MAYBE NOT. THE OFFLINE SELF IS NOT AN INTEGRAL PRELAPSARIAN UNITY
 
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