Corpsey

bandz ahoy
It's interesting reading about Dickens as a popular phenomenon, how different that role was from that of authors in our time. He apparently would write novels and release them in chapters and change them as he went along, partly in response to the public reaction.

Playing that role probably fed into both his vulgarity and vitality as an author. And Shakespeare also wrote for a public, not all of them highly educated.
 

jenks

thread death
The degree of popularity/celebrity is head spinning and he knocked out masterpiece after masterpiece while editing Household Words, taking part in am dram, campaigning for all kinds of things (including copyright protection), doing his own one man shows, having a long term illicit affair and ‘being Dickens’

There’s a story early on in his career, possibly apocryphal, that he’s in a shop and he hears two women worrying about the fate of Oliver and he hadn’t actually written the next instalment. He said it was then he realised his relationship between himself and the reading public.

As his career develops he uses the three volume novel structure in ever more subtle and sophisticated ways - the use of doubles, echoes, parallels and reflections patterning the plot. Chuzzlewit looks back to the Tom Jones novel while Bleak House is moving into the modern world.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Yeah, I find that fascinating cos a modern 'serious' writer of novels wouldn't even consider writing for such a huge and varied audience.

I'm not at all plugged into the modern world of literature but the authors I am aware of as being mega sellers tend to be working in genres like fantasy, horror, thrillers etc. Which, now I come to think of it, Dickens was kindasorta working in himself.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
From Angus Calder's introduction to Great Expectations (my tattered, scribbled on, old copy that I inherited/nicked from my mum)

'The first condition of an author's popularity, the prime means to make people like him, is the love with which he treats his characters. This is why Dickens's characters are the friends of all mankind; they are the bond of union between Man in America and Man in Petersburg.' If we substitute 'Leningrad' for 'Petersburg', these words from Tolstoy's notebooks seem true today. Dickens's books still jostle the Bible and Das Kapital as world best-sellers. It was Chesterton who called him 'a mythologist rather than a novelist'; certainly, the characters and situations which he created have achieved such general currency wherever novels are read that they have soften seemed less the products of English literary culture than of a transmuted popular consciousness, like the heroes of Greek epics. Miss Havisham, in Great Expectations, is one of the many Dickens characters - Pickwick, Quilp, Fagin, Little Nell, Pecksniff - who are much part of the permanent furniture of the private and public rooms of the Western mind as Ulysses and Sinbad.

When Dickens's imagination went to work on the Victorian society which he dominated and detested, it produced a picture which was certainly caricatured and unfair in particulars, but which in general now seems not only to reflect his own times accurately but also to be a disturbingly close likeness of our own. His inspired comic creations and his daemonic villains have often been dismissed as mere gargoyles and monsters, crudely enjoyable though unreal. But, as Lionel Trilling says, 'We who have seen Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels put on the stage of history, and Picksniffery institutionalised in the Kremlin, are in no position to suppose that Dickens ever exaggerated in the least the extravagance of madness, absurdity and malevolence in the world – or, conversely, when we consider the resistance to those qualities, the goodness.'
 

martin

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The Old Curiosity Shop (1840) recent re-read, here he starts to really hit his stride - the Little Nell tour of England accompanied by giants, punch and judy shows and assorted odd bods is contrasted with the world of Quilp and his sordid and corruption 8/10

How typical/atypical of Dickens is this one?
 

jenks

thread death
How typical/atypical of Dickens is this one?
I’d say it’s a proto type of what’s to come - the mysterious stranger, the perfect child/woman, financial ruin, benefactors, comic turns, grotesques, a genuinely evil character and surprise heroism. It’s all there it’s not all clicked into place and there are moments of heaviness but the energy is in there. Dunno if that answers your question or not…
 

jenks

thread death
Rereading Dombey. The first 200 pages do take awhile to set things up but the next 600 really rattle by. I think it’s the novel where he really starts to enjoy the broad canvas and creates greater complexity and ambiguity into his story. Still has an out and out villain but there’s a great deal more sympathy for the majority of the characters who are, in one way or another, compromised by their status. I don’t think another author gives me so much enjoyment, in fact when certain characters reappear I feel like cheering.
 

jenks

thread death
Re-reading Chuzzlewit and as with nearly all my re-reads of Dickens I’m noticing how much stranger it is than I remembered. It almost feels like he’s working out what the book is going to be about. I can imagine people giving up after 100 pages but once you get over the 300 page mark it really does take off - as if he finds the point of the novel. The zoom in on the craven Pecksniff and the machinations of Twigg offset with Martin’s travails in America make up for the overly broad ‘satire’ on American society earlier on. I think I stand by my original 7/10
 

martin

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Finished Little Dorrit, which took me just under 2 months, on and off (been reading at a snail’s pace this year). Overall: enjoyed it, with some real high points, but a few frustrating parts: don’t think I’ve ever read anything of this length where the two main characters have been so faceless (at least Little Nell takes charge and drives some of the action in TOCS; Amy D just seems to waft around wherever the plot blows her). Also, the ‘bad guy’ was like something out of Wacky Races and an unnecessary addition, given the ‘real’ villains of the piece (though I guess this role was such a staple of serials at that time, Dickens felt obliged to chuck him in?_ And I still don’t understand why the public turns on Arthur after he’s been defrauded, or why Panks doesn’t get rounded up for the Marshalsea too…

But Dickens more than makes up for it in other areas, especially the Merdle/Flintwich storylines (could have done with more of the latter, IMHO). I never realised he was so funny at times, either: I’m kind of appalled I spent so many decades wilfully avoiding his output, believing it was going to be a load of prolix sentimental gush. Some great one-liners and descriptions. Word of warning: if you lose track of some of the characters, be careful when looking them up online (first site I came to basically gave away the ending).
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
I'm two thirds of the way through David Copperfield, I love it, definitely gonna read some more dickens this year.

I stupidly looked at one of the annotations early on in the book on a very minor issue, and it gave away a MASSIVE event involving Steerforth that I still haven't arrived at yet :mad:
 

jenks

thread death
The blurb on the Penguin Chuzzlewit refers to an incident that doesn’t happen until 700+ pages into a 900 page novel.

Glad to see people still enjoying Dickens - I think 21stC readers find the passive heroines hard to bear - the virtuous so much less interesting than the various shits he does so well. It’s where he invests his energy as a writer.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Imagine such a thing if ye dare

A symbiotic relationship taken to Cronenbergian extremes, like conjoined twins stitched back together

Fitting
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
The storm scene in DC is one of the best things i've ever read in my life. Gonna go back and read it again tomorrow.

I particularly loved that chapter when he goes out on a bender and disgraces himself as well.

Sorry,@jenks haven't got anything intelligent or original to say about the book, but I enjoyed reading back through this thread today, you and Luka talking about the 'shadow dickens', very interesting.
That prison scene really took me by surprise actually in amongst all the more predictable tying-together-loose-ends bits at the close of the book.

Want to read another Dickens soon but maybe one of the shorter ones, what do you recommend?
 

jenks

thread death
The storm scene in DC is one of the best things i've ever read in my life. Gonna go back and read it again tomorrow.

I particularly loved that chapter when he goes out on a bender and disgraces himself as well.

Sorry,@jenks haven't got anything intelligent or original to say about the book, but I enjoyed reading back through this thread today, you and Luka talking about the 'shadow dickens', very interesting.
That prison scene really took me by surprise actually in amongst all the more predictable tying-together-loose-ends bits at the close of the book.

Want to read another Dickens soon but maybe one of the shorter ones, what do you recommend?
I always recommend Great Expectations, I know it’s not super short but it’s about as perfect as any novel I’ve ever read. To be honest he needs that broad canvas. The shorter fiction doesn’t work so well but of them Hard Times and Oliver Twist are decent. Tale of Two Cities is great fun.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
I always recommend Great Expectations, I know it’s not super short but it’s about as perfect as any novel I’ve ever read. To be honest he needs that broad canvas. The shorter fiction doesn’t work so well but of them Hard Times and Oliver Twist are decent. Tale of Two Cities is great fun.
I read great expectations at school, need to reread it though definitely. Might go for tale of two cities then.
 

luka

Well-known member
little dorrit was grest but i never got round to finishing it. his books are punitaively long.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Yeah, I was reading other stuff alongside DC and I never usually do that. It was dead easy to get back into after putting it down for a couple of days though.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
As I watched them while they all stood clustering about the forge, enjoying themselves so much, I thought what terrible good sauce for a dinner my fugitive friend on the marshes was. They had not enjoyed themselves a quarter so much, before the entertainment was brightened with the excitement he furnished. And now, when they were all in lively anticipation of “the two villains” being taken, and when the bellows seemed to roar for the fugitives, the fire to flare for them, the smoke to hurry away in pursuit of them, Joe to hammer and clink for them, and all the murky shadows on the wall to shake at them in menace as the blaze rose and sank, and the red-hot sparks dropped and died, the pale afternoon outside almost seemed in my pitying young fancy to have turned pale on their account, poor wretches.
 
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