The dissensus personal defence armoury
- Thread starter hmg
- Start date
IdleRich
IdleRich
It's just not that though. Boxing is very explicit in stating it's a sport (some might say it protests too much) - no kicking, elbowing etc queensbury rules and so on deliberately distancing itself from just fucking fighting. Again it's not a criticism, but it's quite different from a system someone might develop if they created it specifically with the aim in mind of maximising your chances of being last man standing in a bar ruck. Of course it's closer to being that than, say, tennis is, but there are many things which start off more like that and which are kinda stuffed into a sport-shaped hole, something which is only possible with the removal of a few bits and the artificial addition of a few rules.
You're making a parallel point which I agee sounds right. Hitting and getting hit really hard for real surely does prepare you for real fighting. But do think my point is also valid as far as it goes? Do you think I'm right in what I'm saying about the professed ideas behind the sports?
vimothy
yurp
the ultimate test is, what if you get into a fight with someone who doesnt know anything about your martial art - they dont know the rules, they're just trying to knock you down and kick you in the face a few times. boxing, wrestling, judo, kickboxing, bjj, seem to do well according to this standard. tai chi, wing chun etc, less so.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Well sure... but tai-chi is really nit fighting is it?
But do you see what I'm saying about boxing being a formal replacement for fighting rather than a refinement of it?
I reckon fencing might be an equivalent for sword fighting.
Two things I kinda wouldn't mind trying... maybe too old to start now... I'd probably struggle to reach even international level.
But do you see what I'm saying about boxing being a formal replacement for fighting rather than a refinement of it?
I reckon fencing might be an equivalent for sword fighting.
Two things I kinda wouldn't mind trying... maybe too old to start now... I'd probably struggle to reach even international level.
vimothy
yurp
but boxing is somehow still fighting, whereas wing chun is not. that's why boxing is useful in a real fight. I know what you mean tho about formalisation, but I think it's like with all the "useful" martial arts, they just take one aspect of a real fight and focus on that. so boxing is striking with fists. bjj is grappling. judo is throws. but other than that restriction, it's still a real fight, you can still take a beating.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Yeah that sounds about right. I don't think we're disagreeing, just sort of focusing on different aspects...
I really don't know much at all about the various martial art types and disciplines. Until a few years ago I thought that Tai Chi was entirely like a kind of synchronised swimming on land, I didn't know it had a fight aspect to it at all. @DannyL told me that it did so I stand corrected. I've really never seen that though, I can't imagine how it would actually work for fighting. Like... what is it... capoeira? Is there a version of that that is actually for fighting?
As for Wing Chun, I think I have read that it's a display one and I suppose that's what you're confirming now. Though equally if someone told me that there was a strand of it that was incredibly deadly I wouldn't be able to contradict them.
I really don't know much at all about the various martial art types and disciplines. Until a few years ago I thought that Tai Chi was entirely like a kind of synchronised swimming on land, I didn't know it had a fight aspect to it at all. @DannyL told me that it did so I stand corrected. I've really never seen that though, I can't imagine how it would actually work for fighting. Like... what is it... capoeira? Is there a version of that that is actually for fighting?
As for Wing Chun, I think I have read that it's a display one and I suppose that's what you're confirming now. Though equally if someone told me that there was a strand of it that was incredibly deadly I wouldn't be able to contradict them.
IdleRich
IdleRich
One of our friends here has a new boyfriend who is from England and went to a (very I guess) posh school and he did a bit of fencing there. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone before who has done it. I suppose, now that I've have (sort of) reached adulthood, if I really wanted to do it and was prepared to put the effort in then surely I could track down somewhere to have a crack at it, at least discover if it is fun or not. Just need to hold that thought....
IdleRich
IdleRich
I've literally never heard of Shotokan - I can only assume that it's an incredibly lethal form of violence that is banned by all but the most unscrupulous of teachers and only studied by the most dangerous of psychopaths who eschew all the spiritual, sporting and even fitness aspects of martial arts in favour of a savage pursuit that is designed purely to kill - or at least horrifically maim, cripple or disfigure - their opponents as quickly and brutally as possible.
In other words, something that sits perfectly with your enormous arsenal of vicious murder tools, coated in deadly slow-acting but excruciatingly painful and incurable poisons.
IdleRich
IdleRich
It's a good job that Bond went to public school (did he, I've always thought so anyhow) or else he wouldn't have stood a chance here. Although, come to think of it, I'm no expert on the sport at all, but, from my limited understanding I would have thought that thrust at 6.09 contravened the rule about how you cannot make a transverse blow from above the shoulder if the blade is outside the line of the hip, so perhaps they were making allowances for those without the advantages of an expensive education anyway.
Yeah.... ok, sure it is, if you say so.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
This only works if you have a ponytail (q.v.), a goldfish named Attila (q.v.), a yin-yang tattoo that you got long before every other person you meet had one (q.v.), etc. etc.
No doubt weapons and martial arts can help to shore up the odds, but they're probably not all that effective if you're up against a genuine psycho with violence in their blood, who's used to scrapping, can turn all their strength and energy against you and has no compunction about killing you. A biro would be deadlier in their hands than a knife in yours.
Luckily I haven't met many 'karate hardmen' but the one I remember, who couldn't shut up about how he'd beat up anyone who disrespected him, was a dour fantasist. If you could really kill a man with a chop to the throat, you surely wouldn't get upset about some random drunk mouthing off down the pub? It'd be like assaulting a toddler for calling you names.
Luckily I haven't met many 'karate hardmen' but the one I remember, who couldn't shut up about how he'd beat up anyone who disrespected him, was a dour fantasist. If you could really kill a man with a chop to the throat, you surely wouldn't get upset about some random drunk mouthing off down the pub? It'd be like assaulting a toddler for calling you names.
Murphy
cat malogen
Add cocaine cut to fuck and back (pub dust) plus booze and roids too for more intense anger.
And breathe.
To be fair, pre-Covid most pubs or gaffs where this shit happens you’d be aware enough about staying clear of. Even then many’s the occasion where Mr Angry is ranting, the situation or confrontation balls into a melee and he ends up getting stamped on at monsoon levels. You can just stand at the bar doing a commentary. Add chippies and kebab shops 11pm-4am. Never going to end well.
And breathe.
Muggings round here are increasingly common. When I park the car I wait a minute with the lights off to see what urchins might crawl out from alleyways. If you’re committed to self defence, Krav is possibly better than bjj because it programs you into finding escape routes out from 4 vs 1‘s and not going to ground. The emphasis is on developing a sound “fence” barrier between you and whoever and then always defaulting to “run”. There’s no posturing or people out to pop your knees like bjj, which is pure knee slaughter. Most clubs are really well run, except.....Covid!
Scrape your face off you six foot cunt?
And breathe.
To be fair, pre-Covid most pubs or gaffs where this shit happens you’d be aware enough about staying clear of. Even then many’s the occasion where Mr Angry is ranting, the situation or confrontation balls into a melee and he ends up getting stamped on at monsoon levels. You can just stand at the bar doing a commentary. Add chippies and kebab shops 11pm-4am. Never going to end well.
And breathe.
Muggings round here are increasingly common. When I park the car I wait a minute with the lights off to see what urchins might crawl out from alleyways. If you’re committed to self defence, Krav is possibly better than bjj because it programs you into finding escape routes out from 4 vs 1‘s and not going to ground. The emphasis is on developing a sound “fence” barrier between you and whoever and then always defaulting to “run”. There’s no posturing or people out to pop your knees like bjj, which is pure knee slaughter. Most clubs are really well run, except.....Covid!
Scrape your face off you six foot cunt?
