Being Difficult.

[luka]

"When this experiment is conducted in the doctor-patient situation, the patient in many ways can go through the motions in a fashion which observes the letter but not the spirit... how easy it can be to win petty victories by carrying out instructions in a way that defies or nullifies their intent. To some extent most people have such a need for personal triumph over someone, and it is important to be on the lookout for this motive in doing these self-awareness experiments.

While certainly you may not respond in this particular way, you may somehow feel that we are challenging you to a tug of war, in which you must defend yourself against us. If so, you have the decisive advantage, for, so long as you feel that way, we cannot budge you.

What we wish to do is to ally ourselves with you and help you to budge yourself. Should you succeed to the end in demonstrating that you can do these experiments and still remain unmoved, over whom will you have won a victory?"

 

[luka]

We learn to be difficult as very young children as a war tactic in a situation of asymmetrical power. Can you remember a parent flying into fits of rage when you were dawdling over putting your shoes on?

 

[luka]

Announcing "I don't understand" is another classic method of sabotage.

 

[luka]

We introject authority and resist our own commands.

 

[luka]

These problems have to be solved without identifying ourselves with authority and power and without succumbing to self sabotage inertia and deadlock.

 

[luka]

In connection with discussions around resistance vs aligning with 'The Process'
Active & Reactive forces etc

 

[shiels]

I read the Prynne thing you linked and understood about a twelfth of it. It made me feel really stupid again so that was valuable

 

[woops]

is that first quote from the gestalt book?

 

[luka]

Yep. What do you think of it? How does it make you feel? I remember you saying you felt persecuted by their tone the first time round. Does it still feel like persecution?

 

[woops]

i found the tone very aggressive yes. that's what stopped me reading any further. what they are saying is true, though, i can see that

 

[luka]

It is very aggressive I agree and the constant appeals to the 'heathy person' the book makes feels threatening too

 

[thirdform]

It is very aggressive I agree and the constant appeals to the 'heathy person' the book makes feels threatening too

the stars down to earth is a good book.

 

[boxedjoy]

I have a reputation for being "difficult" but I think it's just that I don't want to be complicit in the hassles people try to add into my life.

"Difficult" is a matter of perception. When I'm being celebratory of gay pride and expressing happiness it's very easy to be popular. When I'm challenging people on their biases and prejudices it's a lot harder. I'm happy to be difficult when I'm trying to do the right thing.

 

[boxedjoy]

When I was in primary school my then-best friend started telling Ethopian jokes and I fell out with him because I knew it wasn't acceptable. My parents were really annoyed because he was popular and good at sports and everyone liked him and I was a geek from a council estate. It would have been so much easier to laugh along and it would have suited everyone but, like, if at ten years old I could tell that racist stereotypes as punchlines was wrong then why couldn't everyone?

We got to high school and I got relentlessly picked on while he was ultra-popular but I have my dignity and righteousness and it's almost a comfort.

 

[kumar]

when i did a stint as a teaching assistant i worked with this genius 6 year old who constantly fucked off everyone at the school. there is a psychological profile "pathological demand avoidance" that educational psychs use to advise people working with certain kids like that. the only "success" i had came when i adopted the approach of a post 60s advertising maverick trying to commodify and sell back to him acceptable transgressions against the school. eg maths lesson might be how many pictures of the teachers face can you rip up in a minute etc.

 

[kumar]

I'm happy to be difficult when I'm trying to do the right thing.

i'd like to think i am as principled as that, i think a lot of the time in the past i have probably overidentified with the "feeling difficult" part at the expense of being right productively. i used to tell my mates off in school for racist jokes but it mainly resulted in fewer mates and more racist jokes.

 

[IdleRich]

When I was in primary school my then-best friend started telling Ethopian jokes and I fell out with him because I knew it wasn't acceptable. My parents were really annoyed because he was popular and good at sports and everyone liked him and I was a geek from a council estate. It would have been so much easier to laugh along and it would have suited everyone but, like, if at ten years old I could tell that racist stereotypes as punchlines was wrong then why couldn't everyone?
We got to high school and I got relentlessly picked on while he was ultra-popular but I have my dignity and righteousness and it's almost a comfort.

I would a) quite possibly not known that was wrong when I was at primary school and b) even if i did I would definitely not have had the balls to kick back against it. No chance.

 

[kumar]

"balls" is relative though, if you are naturally more inclined to alienate people and stew in misery it doesnt take as much balls to do that. not to take anything away from boxed joy ofc

 

[IdleRich]

Well... yeah... let me clarify, I would have certainly done what was easiest for me and even if I had somehow done the right thing it would have most likely been for the wrong reasons.

 

[kumar]

i guess its easy, especially if youre 11, to make a political virtue out of something that just comes more naturally to you than others. the anti racist sentiment and the desire to be a good boy are different i suppose