Going it alone

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
you can make compelling art from this qliphothic zone, i think a lot of the strung out electric miles stuff does but that is becasue it doesnt add the corn syrup of mawkish sentimentality

I mean miles used to snort gak out of an airplane hostess's hand, god knows what sort of rumpy pumpy they got up to. top lad.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Of course they are. But I'm less and less interested in arguing about what music is good these days. For those who can't see that it's their loss... just as it's my loss that I get nothing from the turgid, fiddly electronica that I've been checking in the music threads lately.

I mean tonally Bowie is the definition of turgid. I'm not even talking aesthetically. no experiments in quartertones, very basic major and minor substandard cord progressions.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
naturally you can like that, but with bowie fans I get the feeling they are afraid to embrace the turgid as a desirable aesthetic. and that intrigues me.
 

sus

Moderator
People who use double en-dashes (--) in their place ought to be pitied, or better, kept out of polite society.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
You should know.

hey no need for the snark all I'm saying is Bowie is not more or less turgid than any hip electronica today. why are his fans afraid to admit that? That's what interests me. It's like some musique concrete right, someone could say it's boring, you have to wait 15 minutes for something to happen, ignoring that that is part of the experience in the age of 'now-now-now'
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
put it this way, I'm asking why people are unavailable to value turgid positively.

Given that the definition of turgid is 'ostentatiously lofty in style.'

That's Bowie to a t. nothing to be shamed about there.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
hey no need for the snark
You're right, from now on gonna keep things civil like you do all the time.
put it this way, I'm asking why people are unavailable to value turgid positively.

Given that the definition of turgid is 'ostentatiously lofty in style.'

That's Bowie to a t. nothing to be shamed about there.
I actually meant turgid as swollen and stiff rather than pompous although you're right it can mean that too. Certainly Bowie IS (or can be) pompous, I wouldn't argue on that.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
and are also effectively your employees, rather than your comrades in arms
John Eden and I made that exact point 10 pages back (not that I blame you for not reading the entire thread, I usually don't myself)

the question is about dynamic - Reed/Cale, Lennon/McCartney, etc is a dynamic of equals

vs a "solo artist" collaborating with people to ultimately realize their creative vision

and it's the crucial point of the original topic, not chemistry or band energy or whatever

the OP talks about checked vs unchecked expression - only a relative equal can apply a check

I also think line between band energy and ersatz band energy is much blurrier than you make it to be in that post

Led Zeppelin - the ultimate rock band qua rock band - was two session guys "consciously selecting" a frontman (and drummer)

going the other way, the history of disco and post-disco is largely one of partnerships of relative creative equals directing session players to produce ersatz band energy. I would argue the "band energy" of Chic (a "real" band - initially inspired by Roxy Music) is basically indistinguishable from other Edwards/Rodgers projects.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
boxed joy also brought Prince earlier

basically no one can what Prince did - write, produce, play every instrument at a high level, sing/front AND do the kind of image creation/management Bowie excelled at. everyone else has to contract some of that out to trusted collaborators and/or hired hands. and even Prince had to hire out for some things. a large part of pop stardom is personnel management and administration, which Bowie also seems to have excelled at, to credit where it's due.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
cuz they don't think that. bowie fans think he's an innovator.
see, this is exactly what I can't countenance in re Bowie's actual music

when someone says he has really good hooks or melodies or whatever, I don't agree, but that's just down to taste so it's whatever

but this - he was the opposite of an innovator. his entire career was finding innovative things and making them palatable for a broad pop audience.

not that there's anything wrong with being a popularizer. just with getting undeserved credit for innovation.

what's the famous Jagger line? "Make sure you don't wear a new pair of shoes around David" (or he'll steal them) or whatever
 

luka

Well-known member
i find saying 'rebel, rebel' to be pretty catchy. thats the one i was thinking of. that goes round in my head sometimes. or variations like 'pebble, pebble'
 
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