semiotext(e)
john eden
male pale and stale
They also published a great book about the 43 Group recently, so it’s a mixed bag.It's called "How the EHRC got to so wrong" (free as a PDF I think) which is- that's pretty much what got Corbyn suspended.
That thread is a bit odd Version. I've just read it, he slags off a book about the Uighar Genocide, doesn't really say why, but right underneath there's a link to some thread denying it's happening. It seems an incredibly broad range of books he's criticising, I can't see a linking theme really (and also - has he read them all? Cos that'd take some time):
version
Well-known member
Yeah, this is what I mean about it being "pretty loose". It feels like he's just throwing stuff out there without much rigour. He's one of those American left conspiracy podcast types, so I guess he's so anti-American he refuses to believe anything bad about their opponents.
I read another thread of his that suggested Bobby Kennedy killed Marilyn Monroe. It was intriguing, but no idea how much truth there was to it. A lot of it seemed to come from the kind of contentious history books you see being touted on conspiracy forums and which read like plots from an Ellroy novel.
I read another thread of his that suggested Bobby Kennedy killed Marilyn Monroe. It was intriguing, but no idea how much truth there was to it. A lot of it seemed to come from the kind of contentious history books you see being touted on conspiracy forums and which read like plots from an Ellroy novel.
Oh, that's interesting. It's funny, I read it without knowing anything about him - I was assuming he was an English leftist - so I read him without a filter on and was taking him quite seriously for most of it. Was quite a moment of cognitive dissonance when he started on that book above. I'd normally just dismiss someone like that out of hand so I guess that's an interesting thing to note about myself.
version
Well-known member
He claims to have read between 30 and 40 of their books, but I dunno whether the stuff he's criticising's included in that.
More broadly, everyone and everything is an "op" with some of those folks. They even accuse other posters and podcasters of working for the security services. I think the paranoia's well founded (to a degree), but I get fed up with the confidence and insinuation. There's this irritating mix of claiming this or that definitely happened and "just asking questions" based on scant evidence.
More broadly, everyone and everything is an "op" with some of those folks. They even accuse other posters and podcasters of working for the security services. I think the paranoia's well founded (to a degree), but I get fed up with the confidence and insinuation. There's this irritating mix of claiming this or that definitely happened and "just asking questions" based on scant evidence.
john eden
male pale and stale
Not keen on that thread. There are some factual errors: the spycops who infiltrated over 1000 left wing groups did not work for MI5.
There are some laughable reaches - it is not "sus" that a book the twitter guy likes has gone out of print.
Like, the guy has opinions on the books they put out and likes some and does not like others? Ok wow, I also have opinions.
Sophie Lewis' book "Full Surrogacy Now" (which I have read) is not "sus" because the twtter guy doesn't see how it could be put into practice. It supposed to be provocative/utopian and is excellent.
Aaron Bastani's "Fully Automated Luxury Communism" is a shit and irritating book, but he has a large profile and it has a snappy title and raises some interesting questions even if it answers them terribly. It is hardly surprising that Verso published it as they are both a capitalist publishing enterprise and also a left wing organisation - and of course these things can be in conflict with each other.
Similarly it is hardly surprising that Verso's founders and I assume its current managers were/are middle class intellectuals and this influences what they publish. But I see no reason to treat their output with any more suspicion/criticality than any other publishing house (and much less, in the cases of overly ideologically right wing ones).
As for the assertions of MI5/state infiltration well who knows. Probably there is a file on senior people at Verso and several of their authors. It would literally be amazing if there wasn't a file on Class War founder Ian Bone and we know that Tariq Ali was heavily monitored by spycops in the 60s and 70s because this came out as part of the Undercover Police Inquiry.
All of this is normal. And we are not children so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise really. The vague allegations that Verso as a whole is a state run operation is absurd. It doesn't need to be and the resources involved with that would be significant. But you know if anyone has proof that would be good to see.
There are some laughable reaches - it is not "sus" that a book the twitter guy likes has gone out of print.
Like, the guy has opinions on the books they put out and likes some and does not like others? Ok wow, I also have opinions.
Sophie Lewis' book "Full Surrogacy Now" (which I have read) is not "sus" because the twtter guy doesn't see how it could be put into practice. It supposed to be provocative/utopian and is excellent.
Aaron Bastani's "Fully Automated Luxury Communism" is a shit and irritating book, but he has a large profile and it has a snappy title and raises some interesting questions even if it answers them terribly. It is hardly surprising that Verso published it as they are both a capitalist publishing enterprise and also a left wing organisation - and of course these things can be in conflict with each other.
Similarly it is hardly surprising that Verso's founders and I assume its current managers were/are middle class intellectuals and this influences what they publish. But I see no reason to treat their output with any more suspicion/criticality than any other publishing house (and much less, in the cases of overly ideologically right wing ones).
As for the assertions of MI5/state infiltration well who knows. Probably there is a file on senior people at Verso and several of their authors. It would literally be amazing if there wasn't a file on Class War founder Ian Bone and we know that Tariq Ali was heavily monitored by spycops in the 60s and 70s because this came out as part of the Undercover Police Inquiry.
All of this is normal. And we are not children so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise really. The vague allegations that Verso as a whole is a state run operation is absurd. It doesn't need to be and the resources involved with that would be significant. But you know if anyone has proof that would be good to see.
version
Well-known member
I think the stuff with the CIA backing various artists, journals and publications during the Cold War does a lot of legwork with this sort of thing. You can have vague suspicions then point to that to show its been done in the past, so why not in this instance too? That's enough for some.
www.independent.co.uk
www.salon.com
Modern art was CIA 'weapon'
Revealed: how the spy agency used unwitting artists such as Pollock and de Kooning in a cultural Cold War
www.independent.co.uk
Exclusive: The Paris Review, the Cold War and the CIA
Letters discovered by Salon show even deeper Cold War ties between the Paris Review and a U.S. propaganda front
www.salon.com
version
Well-known member
That's the main problem I have with these Twitter threads tbh. They fire out a load of assertions, suitably constricted by the format, and that's about it. Some of them look cool and exciting, but you're supposed to just believe it and the posters don't always take kindly to being questioned.
version
Well-known member
I'm not convinced these outlets being a front or whatever is even necessary at this point. Are they particularly threatening? That article about the IDF using D&G is pretty old now and you can get a lot of this stuff on Amazon. One of the co-founders of Buzzfeed was/is a Deleuzian. It seems to have been completely absorbed.
john eden
male pale and stale
Yeah exactly. That work, if it was ever significant, has basically been done now anyway. It’s not like the state needs to destabilise a buoyant insurrectionary Left with… books?
Not taking kindly to being questioned is always a big give away.
Last edited:
Reterritorialized is the term you are looking for.
The assertion didn’t deserve this magnificent riposte, but thank you anyway.
version
Well-known member
Only if I want to use their language.
Last edited:
john eden
male pale and stale
cathartic for me also!
sus
Moderator
Bookmark'd/subscribed