Master and Commander: Far side of the world (2003)

[sus]

As a naval officer he would know that the captain of a ship never had his meals with the other officers, but remained quite aloof. This was, of course, to stop any familiarity with them. I told him he must get up on the pedestal and remain there. He could then step off occasionally and no harm would be done. The people didn't want a King with which they could hob-nob, but something like the Delphic oracle. The Monarchy was really the creation of every individual's brain.

 

[Corpsey]

Revisting the posts when first the dudes then luka affirmed their love for this film in this thread I felt myself tear up all over again

 

[luka]

 

[sus]

They need one another (reminiscent of that line about anthropology as the handmaiden of colonialism).

@catalog what does this mean

 

[catalog]

@catalog what does this mean

Er, I might get some of the details wrong but...

Social anthropology is a very high victorian subject, you had physical anthropology for a while beforehand but the early 1900s is when the more "ethnographic" approach becomes quite a big thing eg Malinowski going to live with the Trobriand islanders for a while. And studying their society and how they do things.

There's two particularly famous British anthropologists, Evans Pritchards and rivers I think they are called, who studied the nuer in Africa. They are the tribe that counted cattle.

Anyway, some 70s or 80s anthropologist, can't remember his name, he basically said that all this apparent study and scholarship was never neutral, all the anthropologists all went along on colonial expedition type trips and so quite often could be said to have been sponsored by the empire machine.

And so the knowledge they produced was often tainted/used, or otherwise beneficial to the wider colonial project. So not exactly as blunt as stuff like, "oh look at these savage tribes doing terrible punishments to each other, they need civilising by us" but broadly that sort of thing and crucially allowing legitimacy for the exploitation necessary for the colonial project.

So this phrase, anthropology as the handmaiden of colonialism, comes up and sticks. The knowledge at service oc the power, sort of thing.

And I sort of, in my stoned state watching the film, thought of Aubrey and maturins relationship as exemplifying this state of affairs quite well. That sort of twin pursuit angle for well to do men on the high seas.

 

[luka]

the antropolgists were heavily tied up with the CIA later on too

 

[sus]

No yes that makes perfect sense thank you

 

[william_kent]

the antropolgists were heavily tied up with the CIA later on too

prime examples being Gregory Bateson and his wife, Margaret Mead, both involved with OSS / CIA, etc.,

 

[sus]

prime examples being Geoffrey Bateson and his wife, Margaret Mead, both involved with OSS / CIA, etc.,

Source? I know that Gregory Bateson and Mead like basically every US intellectual was involved in WW2 effort, via OSS, but that's very different that claiming they were handmaidens of the CIA

 

[sus]

Gregory Bateson was an amazing man I won't take slander like that lying down

 

[catalog]

I dunno about Bateson or mead.

A lot of the early anthropologists were very brilliant people with hearts in the right place but that doesn't mean they never licked a boot or two to pay for their shit to get done. They had to.

 

[william_kent]

from
Gregory Bateson and the OSS: World War II and Bateson's Assessment of Applied Anthropology
DAVID H. PRICE
Human Organization, Vol. 57, No. 4 (WINTER 1998), pp. 379-384

 

[luka]

you gotta deal with it Gus. they were all mixed up in it. everyone at that time is dirty.

 

[sus]

you gotta deal with it Gus. they were all mixed up in it. everyone at that time is dirty.

Taking LSD a few times as a study subject doesn't count as "involved with the CIA" in any reasonable sense of the term

 

[william_kent]

Taking LSD a few times as a study subject doesn't count as "involved with the CIA" in any reasonable sense of the term

Inducting someone into a CIA funded research program sounds like "MK/ULTRA" to me

 

[sus]

i don't wanna pop anyone's narratives it's fine

 

[william_kent]

i don't wanna pop anyone's narratives it's fine

very magnanimous, appreciated.

I may be a bit too cynical, having realised recently that I may have been subjected to CIA sourced LSD in my youth, and as I gave those microdots to friends, I may be complicit even though I have never been on the payroll of any intelligence agency that I know of...

let's give Gregory the benefit of the doubt...

 

[sus]

This did inspire me to order two Gregory biographies online which I'm looking forward to

 

[william_kent]

This did inspire me to order two Gregory biographies online which I'm looking forward to

to be honest, I'm expecting two differing accounts of the Gordon Todd Skinner and William Leonard Pickard LSD distribution ring to arrive in the post tomorrow...

 

[version]

I may be a bit too cynical, having realised recently that I may have been subjected to CIA sourced LSD in my youth, and as I gave those microdots to friends, I may be complicit even though I have never been on the payroll of any intelligence agency that I know of...

Spill the beans, m8.