the Fentanyl age - provenance, power and the politics of control

[catalog]

I read the new yorker essay and I can see it's just the same madness as a lot of America. In texas they've not even legalised the testing kits.

Like it obviously a scale if drug quite different yo anything seen before, extremely powerful and misunderstood, to a degree we've perhaps not seen before.

But the causes of these deaths are more complex and rooted in what is going on in society. A lot of other factors to do with general teen depression, family issues and so on.

I know that's a bit simplistic and surface level the way I've written it, but there you go.

It sort of reminiscent of the spice epidemic in Manchester a while back, although the issue there was less that people were dying and more that they were striking tgese odd zombie poses.

The more you read into this though, the more you do start to wonder about some kind of covert Chinese ops. I'm sure it's not that, but there's definitely a sniff of it.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Passed out on a train loo throwing a whitey

”get him off me he’s talking all aggressive“ flapping at loo roll (like they have any)

 

[WashYourHands]

You were tripping, someone called you a div (if I’d known you were tripping I might have reduced it to tit) and you ran away

It’s ok, we both lived through it, together

 

[Mr. Tea]

A less lovely person than me might be tempted to say "Just because you can't take drugs without getting completely spannered and embarrassing yourself in public, doesn't mean nobody else can."

But I'm lovely, so I won't.

 

[WashYourHands]

But you went to a metal concert, on “Syd”

 

[WashYourHands]

sounds like a challenge to some sort of “drug off”

I accept but remember what was said about taking pics a while back!

 

[shakahislop]

what would the logic be for the chinese government wanting to make people in the US die from fentanyl overdoses. what would be in it for them.

 

[Mr. Tea]

sounds like a challenge to some sort of “drug off”

Well that's your interpretation, isn't it? I was talking to Gus about the availability of cheap, powerful drugs. You then went off one about mortality rates or something, which I hadn't mentioned at all, then told me I was being "reductive, simplistic and wrong" about... something, still not sure what.

And yeah, I coincidentally happened to be on one at the time after a night out, but it's a pretty rare occurrence these days, what with job, kid and the rest.

 

[Leo]

what would the logic be for the chinese government wanting to make people in the US die from fentanyl overdoses. what would be in it for them.

if they are behind it, the reason could simply be to inflict chaos and crisis, put another critical problem on the government's plate.

 

[shakahislop]

if they are behind it, the reason could simply be to inflict chaos and crisis, put another critical problem on the government's plate.

Doesn't seem convincing does it. I don't know a lot about the China - US power competition or their relationship, but I don't get the impression that this part of the Chinese approach to the US. Which is very different to the Russian approach for example, which throughout the 2010s seemed to have quite a direct intention to cause problems for the US.

 

[shakahislop]

the US conspiratorial mindset is an interesting one isn't it, it seems quite pronounced here as compared to europe, everyone seems to believe in shady dealings behind the scenes, the real story behind the story etc. americans are quite like pakistanis in that way. interesting as well that big business / corporations are seen as a malevolent force.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Not sure how relevant this is to meth precursors/fent and the US, but I remember thinking years ago, when five metric fucktons of mephedrone was being shipped from China to the UK every day, that it was in a sense poetic revenge for the Opium Wars, nearly 200 years on.

 

[WashYourHands]

what would the logic be for the chinese government wanting to make people in the US die from fentanyl overdoses. what would be in it for them.

Whoever‘s actually supplying - an appraisal of supply source pros and cons of various key assessments is where I was trying to frame the opening question - shortens the time between development of addiction and early death, whittles down numbers of homeless and seeds a consistent enveloping web of chaos. Who might have a vested interest in such scenarios? This is a complex, evolving confluence of conditions and in 20 years of toxicology work (and a decade using), never seen anything at this scale

i don’t see a domestic supply influence as inconceivable when the social security blanket doesn’t really exist, a whipping post to further the “better work every day you can and use alcohol like the rest of us” as a firewall, “this is what happens if you slack off/reneague on the fundamental contracts of being a citizen“ while continually ignoring mental health crises

Well that's your interpretation, isn't it? I was talking to Gus about the availability of cheap, powerful drugs. You then went off one about mortality rates or something, which I hadn't mentioned at all, then told me I was being "reductive, simplistic and wrong" about... something, still not sure what.

And yeah, I coincidentally happened to be on one at the time after a night out, but it's a pretty rare occurrence these days, what with job, kid and the rest.

Yes, mortality rates and their differentials, sorry to piss on your Syd chips

Let me help you here - you view Covid deaths and disease transmission as a justifiable concern (we can agree on the term concern?) but you don’t see the situation of drug deaths in say, Scotland, as a concern? We can remove American social domains for a second. Why is Scotland’s mortality rate so high compared to other parts of Britain? If you say grimness I will drive to Devon and find you. When you’re not bleating like a flake i listen to you, you can’t argue there, but I am asking you to expand your own frames of reference

Not sure how relevant this is to meth precursors/fent and the US, but I remember thinking years ago, when five metric fucktons of mephedrone was being shipped from China to the UK every day, that it was in a sense poetic revenge for the Opium Wars, nearly 200 years on.

A sense of Chinese revenge for the Opium Wars sits over a lot of this discussion, unavoidable and a lesson

 

[Leo]

I'd imagine some, if not much, of the supplier motivation is simply pure greed.

 

[Leo]

sure, your customer will likely die from it, but probably a hell of a profit margin in the meantime.

 

[Mr. Tea]

@WashYourHands Where have I said "the current rate of drug deaths in Scotland is not a concern"? I mean, can you quote the post where I've said that, or words that any reasonable person could interpret as meaning that?

If you can, then fair enough, ya got me. You're right and I'm wrong. In fact I'll ask sufi to permanently delete my account here, and may even join an enclosed monastic order on a remote island somewhere, so that I'll never have the opportunity either to take drugs or post on the internet for the rest of my life, which will be spent in pious contemplation of how bad the current rate of drug deaths in Scotland is.

 

[WashYourHands]

Grow up thread death, now you are being a berk

Your only contribution so far is either “moral panic”, equivalence and a dollop of mild hysteria

I know you love me but the thread isn’t about your confused, conflicting feelings - take them elsewhere

 

[Mr. Tea]

Grow up thread death, now you are being a berk

Your only contribution so far is either “moral panic”, equivalence and a dollop of mild hysteria

I know you love me but the thread isn’t about your confused, conflicting feelings - take them elsewhere

"moral panic" was catalog's phrase, not mine. Go back and look.

I quoted his post by mistake when I was actually responding to Gus's point about how pleasurable it is (or isn't) to be drunk all the time.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Basically all the shit you've flung at me in this thread is because you've mistaken catalog's position for my own.

 

[WashYourHands]

Flung, oh dear boy, if I was going to “fling” you’d know. You’re with adults, remember

If you misquote people and make mistakes, it leads to further errors but to get back to the subject at hand, if we may pedant, you still see fentanyl as Gin Alley. It isn’t and the various nuances and more obvious pointers seem lost on you, eg supply chains

If you can’t contribute anything beyond petty histrionics, threatening to life ban (🤣), I’d wade back into the Covid thread if I was you. I don’t hold you in any less esteem but check yourself here Oliver