frustration as part of the aesthetic experience

[Corpsey]

Everyone who reads Ulysses wants to resurrect Joyce to strangle him at some point or other

 

[linebaugh]

do you ever get frustrated by art/music/writing? as in, not intellectually frustrated by the creator's politics or whatever, but frustrated by the art itself in a very visceral, experiential sense? frustrated that you can't "resolve" it, make its details cohere into a satisfying—or at least vivid—experience? or do you always just go "gee, that wasn't very good" and move on to something else before that feeling can set in? is there any art that you both find frustrating to try and grasp and deeply love? do you ever feel conflicted about this, and wonder if the art's virtues are worth the frustration? do you blame the creator for your tribulations, or yourself?

I watched the film Werckmeister Harmonies yesterday and had this experience. It was frustrating because it was very close to amazing but came up just short and I felt I had a very clear sense of what it was doing wrong and could have fixed it if I was there calling the shots. And the way it came short was upsetting- felt like the director was over stepping his bounds in the name of his vision and if he had just let certain moments breath we'd see improvement

 

[linebaugh]

Was also frustrated by the Evil dead movie that just came out but not in any love/hate manner. I hated it all the way through and the way in which it was bad came from such a fundamental failure that there was no way to find anything redeemable in it.

 

[version]

Everyone who reads Ulysses wants to resurrect Joyce to strangle him at some point or other

Corpse revelling in finally having joined the club.

 

[craner]

Corpse revelling in finally having joined the club.

Now we can all admit we haven't read it.

 

[luka]

White Chappell, Scarlet Tracings

very simple very lucid. dont know whats the problem i read half of it today no worries.

White Chappell, Scarlet Tracings

easy book

 

[version]

There's a vague sense of three narratives, but nothing really happens and they don't really go anywhere. I had the impression I was reading pages and pages of almost contextless description and that was all he could really do.

 

[luka]

i think that basically is all he can do. but i think he does it quite well.

 

[luka]

i guess thats why his walk books were more succesful. walk around, describe things.

 

[version]

The articles of his I've read on LRB have been miles better than that book. He seems to need something external to keep him in check and stop him drifting too far into self indulgence.

 

[luka]

i think you're being too harsh on that book. maybe you were distracted and unfocussed while trying to read it. or maybe your iron or blood sugars levels might have been low. cos there's plenty to enjoy in it

 

[linebaugh]

perhaps version should take the book in to a warm bath and report back

 

[wild greens]

I made my mrs watch Inland Empire once and I think she wanted to kill me by the end of it

I had eaten an edible so zoned most of it out

Probably the worst David Lynch film that

 

[version]

i think you're being too harsh on that book. maybe you were distracted and unfocussed while trying to read it. or maybe your iron or blood sugars levels might have been low. cos there's plenty to enjoy in it

I liked certain ideas and sentences, but it just didn't amount to much. It put me in mind of what you said about Cyclonopedia being an underconceptualised sketch of a book.

 

[luka]

i do mostly agree. but i also like the sentences.

 

[mvuent]

I don't love any of this stuff and I do blame the creators for the most part. I've encountered things by almost all of them which I've enjoyed and which demonstrated they were capable of coming up with something decent and interesting without the frustration or obscurantism. It's not an integral part of their style. It's something they've chosen to dial up.

sounds like you're fundamentally a very cold, cynical, untrusting soul.

 

[mvuent]

I watched the film Werckmeister Harmonies yesterday and had this experience. It was frustrating because it was very close to amazing but came up just short and I felt I had a very clear sense of what it was doing wrong and could have fixed it if I was there calling the shots.

right. there's the frustration of a creator doing something "wrong"—and then there's the frustration of a creator doing something that seems "wrong" but that you suspect might actually be right, from another angle or a higher plane.

 

[luka]

remember when you were convinced that electro acoustic music had underlying structure you couldnt recognise but you were still sure it was there

 

[Benny Bunter]

I do get frustrated with loads of difficult poetry, but I think I've become a much more patient reader by attempting to grapple with it anyway - if I don't understand something straightaway (which happens fairly frequently) I try not to worry, come back to it later in a different state of mind or maybe look up what others have had to say about it on the net, and quite often it will click, and you get rewarded and feel clever, which is always a nice feeling. The more widely you read and familiarise yourself with the 'tradition' , the easier it gets too.

It's healthy to read stuff that's a bit too hard for you I reckon, and the rewards can greater when you do finally crack it, or at least make some headway. There probably does have to be some sort of initial appeal to want to put the time in though.

 

[version]

sounds like you're fundamentally a very cold, cynical, untrusting soul.