US Election 2024

[Mr. Tea]

I think you're letting the Dems off too easily. Biden shouldn't have run a second time, the party and affiliated media shouldn't have spent months lying about his mental state and trying to pull the wool over people's eyes while they watched him deteriorate in public, Harris shouldn't have been the pick to replace him and they should have been more on the ball re: new media. A lot of younger Americans don't give a shit about Fox, CNN, etc. but millions of them listen to podcasts and Trump understood this, or at least had people around him who did, and reaped the rewards.

It's not just a case of "the GOP brainwashed everyone." The Democrats fumbled the ball.

OK, I'm with you on the bits on bold: they made a lot of unforced errors, that's undeniable. But you're talking about their choices with regard to the campaign for the last election, while I was talking about their actual policies, many of which were pretty good: bringing inflation down, as I've already mentioned, creating millions of jobs, the student debt forgiveness programme.

And of course the GOP hasn't "brainwashed everyone", because not everyone voted for them, but GOP voters on the whole believe lots of things that are demonstrably untrue. Certainly at a higher rate than Democratic voters, anyway.

 

[versh]

OK, I'm with you on the bits on bold: they made a lot of unforced errors, that's undeniable. But you're talking about their choices with regard to the campaign for the last election, while I was talking about their actual policies, many of which were pretty good: bringing inflation down, as I've already mentioned, creating millions of jobs, the student debt forgiveness programme.

And of course the GOP hasn't "brainwashed everyone", because not everyone voted for them, but GOP voters on the whole believe lots of things that are demonstrably untrue. Certainly at a higher rate than Democratic voters, anyway.

If the voters are as gullible and economically illiterate as you suggest, what use are pretty good policies without a good campaign? They're not going to understand or be drawn in by policies which aren't communicated effectively.

 

[Mr. Tea]

If the voters are as gullible and economically illiterate as you suggest, what use are pretty good policies without a good campaign? They're not going to understand or be drawn in by policies which aren't communicated effectively.

I'm agreeing with you! They could, and should, have run a much better campaign, and admitted that Biden was in no fit state to run again much sooner than they did.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think the celeb endorsement ads may have been a minor factor in Labour's 2015 flop in the UK too

They had some banging celebrity endorsements for the one after that, though.

Russell Brand endorses Jeremy Corbyn as he urges fans to vote Labour

The British comedian famously interview Ed Miliband ahead of the General Election in 2015

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Mr. Tea]

Something you haven't been telling us, @william kent?

 

[Clinamenic]

I'm agreeing with you! They could, and should, have run a much better campaign, and admitted that Biden was in no fit state to run again much sooner than they did.

Agree with you and version here, and lately I’ve been thinking about how the present administration, at any given time, tends to set an underlying “macrocultural” tone nationwide, and within the context of the culture war, this is the sort of supremacy being vied for. Yes, the polices are the more practical and ultimately important aspects, but because the impact of policy on the actual economy, on day to day life, are not felt as immediately as these cultural shifts, it is easier to just associate a given admin with its accompanying cultural shift than with the economic state of affairs resulting from its policy.

In this sense, the Democrats lost because they lost the culture war, ie because their cultural sensibility (think The New Yorker magazine and NPR) has become too snooty, too DEI-maximalist, too marginal relative to the overton window, I gather.

 

[thirdform]

Agree with you and version here, and lately I’ve been thinking about how the present administration, at any given time, tends to set an underlying “macrocultural” tone nationwide, and within the context of the culture war, this is the sort of supremacy being vied for. Yes, the polices are the more practical and ultimately important aspects, but because the impact of policy on the actual economy, on day to day life, are not felt as immediately as these cultural shifts, it is easier to just associate a given admin with its accompanying cultural shift than with the economic state of affairs resulting from its policy.

In this sense, the Democrats lost because they lost the culture war, ie because their cultural sensibility (think The New Yorker magazine and NPR) has become too snooty, too DEI-maximalist, too marginal relative to the overton window, I gather.

more pseudo-intellectual twaddle.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah @Clinamenic, keep the intellectual twaddle genuine, please.

 

[Clinamenic]

Thirdform may care to know that, in his honor, I've stopped washing my hands altogether. Just think about the accrued Western grime coating my keyboard as I typed out that twaddle!

 

[Mr. Tea]

Thirdform may care to know that, in his honor, I've stopped washing my hands altogether. Just think about the accrued Western grime coating my keyboard as I typed out that twaddle!

10% bacon grease, 25% smegma, 65% baked bean sauce.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

All I said was I hope the authoritarian isolationist teams up with the aggressive psychopathic dictator and we'll have peace in our time! I can't believe the bad man swore at me!

HOW does it end? How? Under a Trump presidency?

Trump and Putin kiss and hold hands and Russia withdraws?
OR
Russia gets a green light for aggression and Ukraine has far less weaponry to defend itself, Trump pulls out of NATO, our taxes go up hugely to foot the bill of defending a democracy from invasion? Which is more likely?

Can you state the wager and cash amount exactly please.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

No. Why should concessions be made? Ukraine is a sovereign nation. It was invaded by its neighbour , and lots of spokespeople for Russia have expressed genocidal intent. They want to wipe out Ukrainian identity.

Any discussion should begin with asking Ukrainians what they want. That's what should lead the discussion. Ukrainians do not want to surrender territory to a psychopathic regime that's bombing civilians in their cities for no reasons other than hubris.

Giving up territory, you set a precedent for concessions you say, authoritarians can do wtf they want, no consequences (you can argue Gaza shows that happening already, fair point, different argument). Russia will simply rearm and come back for another go as soon as possible. Appeasment gets you nowhere.

Ukraine is running out of new conscripts with people doing everything that they can to avoid conscription, so if they don't want to fight for themselves then they won't want to fight to set a precedent for the benefit of other countries.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

The average voter, maybe. But perhaps enough of them to have made a difference in a few of the swing states, which is always how elections there are won and lost.

However, I suspect a bigger reason Harris lost is that she has the misfortune to be both dark-skinned and female.

What Tea is saying is that some people that voted Biden last time are racist and have been turned off by Kamala.

Nothing to do with her saying anything interesting at all over the whole campaign.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I don't understand how this isn't obvious to anyone who hasn't still got their umbilical cord attached. Putin or his successor will sooner or later attempt to take the rest of Ukraine, and then beyond Ukraine there's Poland, the Baltic states and Finland - all of which are NATO members, which he'll assume are up for grabs if NATO has lost interest in helping Ukraine defend itself.

Doing some deal with Putin does not set the terms of the deal in stone. What they're basically setting up would be a ceasefire. Ukraine/Nato can nuke Russia by surprise later if they want.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

midtown was subdued yesterday. mood among people i know seems to be disappointment rather than shock. the difference in how much it's hitting home for americans and for foreigners is palpable. for the former there's skin in the game and for the latter it's distanced chat. there's a certain fear that the basic parameters are changing and the country is moving in a new direction, and they're going to have to live through the consequences

In addition to the real threat of the economy doing well during Trump, thereby sealing a Vance 2028 victory, there is a chance that they will find proof that the Dems rigged last time or that they were involved in the assassination attempts and that would be an existential threat to the party. Perhaps it would die and be replaced by a less woke left wing operation.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

crisis in the nation state

You need to make a precise prediction and offer me a wager.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

one thing that i didn't exactly realize before i moved here is that there's a certain level of exaggeration and arguably hysteria in how some americans talk about politics. it smudges your ability to understand what's going on i think, it can be hard to give events and predictions the right weight. i saw the guardian US columnist put out a piece yesterday saying that a nationwide abortion ban was a possibility and i didn't know how seriously to take it. it's not just columnists and so on though, it's just something in the culture about the tone people take when they speak

Yes, the culture is like this thread. A nationwide abortion ban is impossible as Trump devolved abortion to the states. It's just not the tone, it's the fact that people are just willing to lie over and over again in order to help their tribe.

 

[shakahislop]

Yes, the culture is like this thread. A nationwide abortion ban is impossible as Trump devolved abortion to the states. It's just not the tone, it's the fact that people are just willing to lie over and over again in order to help their tribe.

yes you might be right but unfortunately everything you say is mad so how am i supposed to take this seriously

 

[yyaldrin]

does anyone actually know what musk his role or influence/power will be in trump's team?

ain't this mad?

 

[versh]

In this sense, the Democrats lost because they lost the culture war, ie because their cultural sensibility (think The New Yorker magazine and NPR) has become too snooty, too DEI-maximalist, too marginal relative to the overton window, I gather.

Yeah, I think so too. Supposedly Kamala's campaign pulled back from that sort of thing, but it was too late because they're now associated with every annoying liberal or progressive people see on Twitter, on Reddit, on Facebook, etc., all the stupid, condescending workplace initiatives people have to sit through, and you can't shake that off overnight.

I'm sure if they do drop it then their supporters will quickly follow suit, but they didn't have time for that.

There's was a Dem strategist on CNN the other day talking about all this.