What is the hardcore continuum to you?

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Well-known member
woops said:
not sure if i could tell 135 from 140 in a "blind test"
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I think a lot of garage is 133 - 135, house is 130 and dubstep's 140. The post-dubstep stuff was a bunch of people who were into dubstep getting into house and funky and playing old garage tunes in sets so they dropped the tempo to fit it all together and started making this mish-mash of everything.
 
woops

woops

is not like other people
version said:
I think a lot of garage is 133 - 135, house is 130 and dubstep's 140. The post-dubstep stuff was a bunch of people who were into dubstep getting into house and funky and playing old garage tunes in sets so they dropped the tempo to fit it all together and started making this mish-mash of everything.
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come on I'm not a stupid fucking idiot. just saying if i listened to a metronome i couldn't call it
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
dilbert1 said:
I mean, one could see a contradiction between ATR’s black bloc Y2K aesthetics, and then this anti-Deutsche lunacy as some late development, but in old interviews with Empire, as well as more generally in the ideology of anarchist milieus in Germany, it’s not such a fringe position and already latent in their worldview. It certainly is pathetic brain worms hysteria and a testament to the disturbed self-flagellating moral conscience of Germans.
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I never liked ATR's sub-deleuzian rubbish.

You are right about the anarchist milieu in Germany, but I would generalise that to all anarchists. Insofar as anarchism is the ideology of a nonexistent mode of production (petty-commodity production) they can only ever exert pressure on liberals.

It's how UK anarchists are soft on national liberation and US anarchists are soft on black nationalism. And Germans, Israel.

Their only dialogue will be with liberals.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
chava said:
I must say here I disagree. To me Martin Damm production were never that original while sometimes technically well done, while Alec had some proper unique and personal tracks, like SuEcide, The Report even he is a and was a massive blowhard.

Not reason enough to cancel him tho, you touchy englishmen
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Ben İngiliz değilim ama her neyse.

Sure, but I find his originality overrated. Biochip C is not as original, but his magpie tendancies and his idea of sublimating all rave musics and taking them to their most absurd conclusion makes him inadvertently original. Alec is too personal for me, as you say. I don't think Alec Empire truly got jungle, which is probably what makes him appeal to you, but to me that is a turn off. He picked up on the speed and saw it as an update of punk, but it's not really.

There was an excellent @blissblogger passage about this on one of his faves/unfaves blog post.

These thoughts emerged during a spate of compulsive re-listening to what they
used to call (alright, what I used to call) "ambient jungle", which inspired
musings on the lines of why couldn't this music just stay forever at this
sustained peak of awesomeness? Why do musics have to deteriorate or die? Tracks
like Dillinja's "Deep Love" and "Sovereign Melody," Bukem's "Atlantis", EZ
Roller's 'Believe" and "Rolled Into One" (Moving Shadow's last masterpiece?),
the Steve Gurley's remix (more like re-production) of Princess's Eighties
Britsoul classic of yearning "Say I'm Your Number One," still sound so
fantastic----why couldn't they have carried on like this until the end of time,
or at least lasted out the decade. A peculiar twist of hind-hearing is that even
tracks I didn't rate particularly at the time sound fabulous now, like PFM's
"One and Only"---the way the bass moves and drops, the ripple-trails and
glistening vapors of ambience, the explosive entrance of the diva vocal. Then
there's Peshay, a producer I've never rated--his track on the first Logical
Progression, "Vocal", is amazing, and I never even noticed it at the time; that
kind of Speed-oriented mellow jazzual track was the enemy, back then. Now, long
after the battle's subsided, whatever was at stake a faint memory, I can hear it
as a tour de force of exquisitely mashed-up beats and diva deployment, using a
vocal sample (Anita Baker? Barbara Tucker? it's the vocal lick that goes "I'm
singing to you") that's got more in common with a beautifully designed
commodity, a sports car or leather sofa, than say Aretha Franklin; it's all
burnished technique and poise, not raw soul. After 2step I can appreciate what
is basically a kind of capitalist utopianism behind such fetishising of elegance
and surface slickness. Another example: in my disappointment that Omni Trio had
abandoned the euphoria fireworks of the "Renegade Snares" formula, I missed how
good bits of Haunted Science are--"Who Are You?" and especially "The Elemental",
an early neurofunk-style two-stepper beat with keyboard lines as delicate as dew
settling and bass-drops like tender thunder--how cleverly Rob Haigh had
developed a new, calmer but still compelling style of drum'n'bass for the home
environment.

The truth is that there always was an integral side to drum'n'bass that wasn't
about rudeness (nasty B-lines, mash-up breakbeats) but about supreme dainty-ness
and neat-freak finesse. It's a different kind of rush--the tingle you can get
from the groomed delicacy of a hi-hat pattern, the nimble, glancing panache of a
synth-chord flourish. Jacob's Optical Stairway, the oft-maligned alter-ego album
by 4 Hero, is some kind of pinnacle in this respect: the detail in the music
induces its own kind of high, the aural equivalent of putting on your first pair
of glasses and suddenly everything's ultra-sharp.
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FAVES / UNFAVES

FAVES AND UNFAVES OF 2000 (originally on Blissout website) Simon Reynolds's FAVES OF 2000 Greetings! Delayed because of vario...
simonreynoldsfavesunfaves.blogspot.com simonreynoldsfavesunfaves.blogspot.com

Rock music fans need to put a lot of effort into getting soul derived musics, its the antithesis to what they are used to. I grew up with Zurna bands (check any binali selman album/compilation for a taster) so passion and emotional extremity have never been opposites for me. Something to do with microtones something @woops hates to talk about.

Anyway back to the topic, German jungle, you want people like Bassface Sascha, Peter Wiederroth/One from the Posse, and later the whole Position Chrome mob.

In terms of conceptual stuff I have always been a huge fan of Cristian Vogel, but that is not really part of the hardcore continuum. Actually Alec lacks the funk for me, whereas Vogel is insectoid sound design abstract funk.
 
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Well-known member
Corpsey said:
It's weird talking about 'post-dubstep' cos I don't think it was ever a coherent sound (maybe a coherent scene of sorts). I suppose it was all united by the dubstep tempo.

It was a funny sort of thing where a lot of people of my age (including me natch) got into dubstep and discovered techno and house music etc. through that.

If I'd been making stuff at the time I'd have hated to be labelled 'post-dubstep', it's so lame isn't it.
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I don't remember many people referring to the stuff as post-dubstep at the time. It's in the title of the rolling thread on here, but it seems kind of tongue-in-cheek along with the other silly names. I remember a few people using "future garage" but the producers going out of their way to refer to themselves like that weren't very interesting and came off a bit tacky.

My memory of it's you'd go by the labels and DJs. There was that cluster of Oneman, Ben UFO, Braiden, Brackles, Bok Bok and Jackmaster who'd play a mix of new stuff and old dubstep like DMZ, grime instrumentals, funky, old garage tunes, maybe the odd classic house or techno or electro thing, depending which of them you were listening to. You might get a juke or kwaito thing thrown in or some recent rnb too. It felt like a grab bag most weren't too fussed about sticking a name on.
 
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Well-known member
thirdform said:
I've said this before but the best end of dubstep was the least rootsy and most techno end of it. That's when it really fulfilled the promise of being a modern headfuck analog of digidub.
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The first 2562 album holds up pretty well.




Same goes for the red Appleblim and Shackleton 12" and some of the Peverelist stuff.




 
chava

chava

Well-known member
thirdform said:
Rock music fans need to put a lot of effort into getting soul derived musics, its the antithesis to what they are used to.
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Hey, I am not in disagreement with you there. I am all for no-soul-guaranteed tracks. But you can make those without being generic and a jack-of-all-trades.

There is not a hint of 'soul' in the trad rock sense in any Wolfgang Voigt project, for instance. And he was/is not a jack-of-all trades, but basically re-invented himself every 5 years, and in that sense 'personal'.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
chava said:
Hey, I am not in disagreement with you there. I am all for no-soul-guaranteed tracks. But you can make those without being generic and a jack-of-all-trades.

There is not a hint of 'soul' in the trad rock sense in any Wolfgang Voigt project, for instance. And he was/is not a jack-of-all trades, but basically re-invented himself every 5 years, and in that sense 'personal'.
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Sure but I'm not talking about rock soul but rnb/disco/house. Alec has no real passion outside of the shitty punk music. Wolfgang on the other hand is into UK synthpop, which is derived from disco. Also on record as being a fan of Bary White, Smokey Robinson etc.

To answer @blissblogger 's question it's India on the vocals, from Tito Puente JR Oye coma va/Masters At Work Love and Happiness India.









et-cet-a-ra
 
Negative Miami

Negative Miami

Member
Post Dubstep the genre later moved FWD and became uk bass. from 130 to 120 -130.

Someone should make a 'Roots of UK Bass' CD that would rival the impact of the 'Roots of Dubstep' CD











 
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