what does trump want?

[luka]

Yes but extrapolate a coherent project from current actions and intentions. What do you get? Just assume it has a logic and a direction. That's the thread.

 

[version]

The gangster lens is fairly convincing; thinking of him in terms of a mafia don setting up protection rackets, threatening the competition, aligning with some of the other big families whilst making clear he's the boss.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I always think Trump is pretty much without ideology. People calling him a fascist miss that point, he's not a fascist he's just an arsehole, if he bans protest or whatever it's just to make things easier for him, not part of some totalitarian vision. That's not to say that he won't bring about fascism cos he surrounds himself with whoever he deems useful and if they want to bring about a Fourth Reich while helping him he doesn't really care.

That's pretty much my position. If enabling fascism helps to enrich and protect him, then he's fine with it. That's about it.

 

[IdleRich]

I think Trump's logic is

a) stay out of jail, or just avoid court cases etc
b) make money
c) surround himself with loyalists so noone prevents the above
c) that's it

But he needs Bannon, Musk etc to help him so it's more about what they want and who is most in favour this week.

One thing is he does seem to have fully grasped the ineffectual nature of a lot of the checks and balances. So he's just completely ignoring any complaints or strongly worded condemnation from anyone or anything that can't actually bind him.

Also I think he's kinda remembered the things that do have some teeth and which hindered him before - courts, special prosecutors, Congress etc - and he's preemptively striking at them. So he's thinking if a judge says x I have to do it, but there's nothing to stop me firng the judge now befote that happens and appointing Eric Trump in her place. It's pretty clever actually.

 

[version]

One of the more generous explanations I've heard re: his buddying up to Putin is he's playing the long game and attempting to peel him away from Xi and China.

 

[luka]

The gangster lens is fairly convincing; thinking of him in terms of a mafia don setting up protection rackets, threatening the competition, aligning with some of the other big families whilst making clear he's the boss.

But what would that look like ? What would change? What does europe look like? Nato? Balances of power, security architecture

 

[version]

But what would that look like ? What would change? What does europe look like? Nato? Balances of power, security architecture

Fuck knows. This is Dissensus, not Specifics.

 

[luka]

Fuck knows. This is Dissensus, not Specifics.

WEll think a bit then make something up

 

[IdleRich]

One of the more generous explanations I've heard re: his buddying up to Putin is he's playing the long game and attempting to peel him away from Xi and China.

That's gotta be bollocks though hasn't it?

 

[version]

That's gotta be bollocks though hasn't it?

I did describe it as 'generous'.

 

[IdleRich]

I'd probably reach for magnanimous myself.
I doubt he could name the Chinese leader.

 

[Mr. Tea]

One thing is he does seem to have fully grasped the ineffectual nature of a lot of the checks and balances. So he's just completely ignoring any complaints or strongly worded condemnation from anyone or anything that can't actually bind him.

Every time he does this it reminds me of this bit from the first series of GoT:

 

[Mr. Tea]

One of the more generous explanations I've heard re: his buddying up to Putin is he's playing the long game and attempting to peel him away from Xi and China.

In the same way he played the long game and brought down the globalist paedo cabal by raping 12-year-olds, maybe.

 

[yyaldrin]

One of the more generous explanations I've heard re: his buddying up to Putin is he's playing the long game and attempting to peel him away from Xi and China.

that could also mean europe and china growing closer

 

[version]

WEll think a bit then make something up

I suppose the big story atm's Trump's behaviour convincing Europe to step up and assert itself. We tend to talk about the US, China and Russia as the three poles of what's rapidly becoming a multipolar world, perhaps Europe will become a fourth.

 

[okzharp]

Yknow that bit of interview from ages ago when he's asked what his favourite book is, and he answers The Art of the Deal, closely followed by the Bible, and he looks so pleased with his answer. The interviewer then asks him if he has any favourite Bible passages and the look of confusion/outrage on his face...

 

[luka]

It has the economic heft for that if nothing else. But its hard to imagine trump wanting europe to be anything other than subordinate, subordinate but paying more for less

 

[luka]

HE does seem to be motivated by some actual animus towards europe tho

 

[version]

It has the economic heft for that if nothing else. But its hard to imagine trump wanting europe to be anything other than subordinate, subordinate but paying more for less

Yeah, this is what intrigues me. I can't see him reacting well if they start to break away and look like another opponent of the US, but he's kind of giving them no choice.

HE does seem to be motivated by some actual animus towards europe tho

Maybe Musk has some involvement here as he's gotten into a spat with the EU over Twitter.

 

[IdleRich]

It has the economic heft for that if nothing else. But its hard to imagine trump wanting europe to be anything other than subordinate, subordinate but paying more for less

It may have unintended consequences though.