An Emergent Order

[germaphobian]

Look how much of the discussion ends up being about postmodernism itself though.

The term itself is kind of confused and confusing; and now people are going even further talking about metamodernity, post-post-moderntiy, liquid modernity or whatever. But there is only modernity intensifying and no reason or basis for those prefixes. That was another thing that was just a bad linguistic choice, bad framing.

 

[germaphobian]

It arbitrarily introduces some sort of break or divergence in what is essentially pretty straightforward continuum.

 

[germaphobian]

That is maybe you point that these sort of tiny imprecisions accumulate and you end up with pretty useless, lousy linguistic tools (someone already mentioned Wittgenstein)

 

[pattycakes_]

It arbitrarily introduces some sort of break or divergence in what is essentially pretty straightforward continuum.

Isn't it all part of one big continuum that logically follows on from the previous steps and technologies available at the time though? And with some steps being bigger than others, wouldn't it make sense to have a marker for those?

 

[germaphobian]

Isn't it all part of one big continuum that logically follows on from the previous steps and technologies available at the time though? And with some steps being bigger than others, wouldn't it make sense to have a marker for those?

What cleared this up form me was reading Niklas Luhmann where he really convinced me that the last proper break in the smooth continuum, the last qualitative change in mode of existence, was going from stratified society - with identity being completely tied to the class you were born in, sustained within family and morally grounded by religion - to society where the identity roles are determined by functional systems (economy, law, mass media, science, politics, education etc.). But there hasn't been any further change, but if you use a description like "postmodernity" it creates an impression that something else happened, something extra, as if we went from stratified society, to society dominated by functional systems (modernity) to some other or different state, but we didn't.
Dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but I find the Luhmann view much less confusing, more Occam's razor.

 

[Clinamenic]

What cleared this up form me was reading Niklas Luhmann where he really convinced me that the last proper break in the smooth continuum, the last qualitative change in mode of existence, was going from stratified society - with identity being completely tied to the class you were born in, sustained within family and morally grounded by religion - to society where the identity roles are determined by functional systems (economy, law, mass media, science, politics, education etc.). But there hasn't been any further change, but if you use a description like "postmodernity" it creates an impression that something else happened, something extra, as if we went from stratified society, to society dominated by functional systems (modernity) to some other or different state, but we didn't.
Dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but I find the Luhmann view much less confusing, more Occam's razor.

You ever get into Luhmann's zettelkasten stuff? I've been pretty obsessed for the last six months

 

[germaphobian]

You ever get into Luhmann's zettelkasten stuff? I've been pretty obsessed for the last six months

Not really, but as I understand, it's some sort of unique way to take notes, yeah? I actually get the impression that he is much more well known for that than his theories.

 

[luka]

Version having the funniest existential crisis recorded in real time

 

[luka]

For version and @sus what znore is saying is that embedded in (some? all?) texts is a voice which is not the authors own, it's ALP, its the plasmate, it's the living word, it's the manifestation of divine wisdom

 

[luka]

Anyone who has written seriously will have encountered it and many will have made ot the centre of their secret mythos

 

[luka]

It operates outside of time

 

[sus]

Version having the funniest existential crisis recorded in real time

I came here to say that too

 

[sus]

You ever get into Luhmann's zettelkasten stuff? I've been pretty obsessed for the last six months

Post your stack

 

[sus]

I feel I have written seriously but I'm not sure I've experienced that feeling except on acid

 

[sus]

The information is encoded in the language itself? The social structure that shapes and is shaped by language?

 

[luka]

I think the primary experience the cult is built on is, like, the sense of somethimg speaking back, responding, communicating

 

[luka]

The common sense model of writing is i record my thoughts impression whatever on the blank page and see myself reflected back to me

 

[luka]

But when we're alive everything talks back.

 

[luka]

And our own writing tells us things we dont know, even things we cant know

 

[luka]

And in its most developed form it presents itself as a series of structured initiations. The Invisible College and its Instructors.