thirdform

pass the sick bucket
so you don't agree that they function based on these binaries?

no, I'm not a metaphysician, the binary can only be one property of the functionality of the system, but by no means does that property signal its self-reproduceability, a notion I also find somewhat problematic.
 

germaphobian

Well-known member
no, I'm not a metaphysician, the binary can only be one property of the functionality of the system, but by no means does that property signal its limit.

ok, on a empirical level then. because they obviously function somehow. all these seperate things - like football games, traffic, computers, courts, markets, media systems, political parties it all functions around us all the time. so how do they? (no collectivley, but as seperate entities, of course)
 

germaphobian

Well-known member
no, I'm not a metaphysician, the binary can only be one property of the functionality of the system, but by no means does that property signal its self-reproduceability, a notion I also find somewhat problematic.

it's also worth mentioning, which i think ties in with a lot of talk about capitalism/neoliberalism and media saturation, which seem the two big topics on many minds, that there is deffo a difference regarding velocity or more precisley - how effectivley each system can communicate with the help of it's own binary code.
and when you go to the market we can pretty much say that payment/non-payment is the speediest of all forms, these days it's basically instant. it's a rapid speed communication. but, for example, legal/illegal is already a much slower process, or if you go to science - true/false; again, that takes much more time to communicate, with needing experiments, research, proof and so on.
that kind of is the explanation why market can subsume so much and feel so overbearing an why other subsystems have such trouble keeping up with it (again, for example, politics - much slower communication). but it's no kind of moral game; it just happened to have this very efficent and speedy form of communication.
mass media is another near instant system, of course.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
I was reading Bakunin ranting about God early this morning. The main bit I remember is him saying something about materialism obviously being correct and something about idealists being unable to explain the point at which God comes down to the material level and why, whereas if you start from the bottom you can explain your way up.
Except mam has been singularly unable to explain the ideal from the material; the other way round is much easier.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
sorry, i don't buy this. you want to separate the binary communication of legal/illegal from the structure undergirding the disputes itself, but then also want to claim parallel systems.

I find this separation inconceivably pedantic and metaphysical, but you do you, it reads to me like wanting to have your cake and eat it.

maybe I will read mr luhmann one day to get a better hold on his anti-foundational framework (?) . although sociology is not an area I care much for (I have finite time after all) and @version owes me at least 4 days of MDMA even though I hate drugs these days...

What book of his was your favourite? He has a fairly large oeuvre.
It's high time you jettisoned your cultural materialism.
 

0bleak

Well-known member
Incidentally, this is why both @blissblogger and @luka had to concede that the zone of ffruitless intensification only discloses what can continued to be intensified (I.E: the distinction it itself makes) and that thus this zone itself indicates what is on the other side of the limit. Because if a zone of fruitless intensification actually existed as an inherent limit, intensification would no longer intensify.

The interesting thing about the supposed "zone of fruitless intensification" is that I sense people putting limits on electronic music as to what is acceptable, but where they might not otherwise do it with non-electronic music.
Take, for example, breakbeats. Apparently, there is an acceptable level in the amount in they can be chopped and diced and spliced etc. because it otherwise becomes "student music", but at the same time, that person might like to listen to non-electronic music that sounds like completely random, meandering nonsense to the average person (like maybe say some records by Sun Ra, for example).
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
The interesting thing about the supposed "zone of fruitless intensification" is that I sense people putting limits on electronic music as to what is acceptable, but where they might not otherwise do it with non-electronic music.
Take, for example, breakbeats. Apparently, there is an acceptable level in the amount in they can be chopped and diced and spliced etc. because it otherwise becomes "student music", but at the same time, that person might like to listen to non-electronic music that sounds like completely random, meandering nonsense to the average person (like maybe say some records by Sun Ra, for example).

100% correct.

For me the problem with some breakcore isn't that the beats are too attentively chopped, but they turn into a sort of punk rock mosh, which I don't gravitate to as a rule. In general I prefer Venetian Snares when he isn't using jungle signifiers, for instance. Otherwise the likes of Paradox, Macc, dgjohn etc make beats as chopped up as the breakcore dismissed as fruitlessly intensified, they just adopt a more jazz drumming approach to the choppage.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
100% correct.

For me the problem with some breakcore isn't that the beats are too attentively chopped, but they turn into a sort of punk rock mosh, which I don't gravitate to as a rule. In general I prefer Venetian Snares when he isn't using jungle signifiers, for instance. Otherwise the likes of Paradox, Macc, dgjohn etc make beats as chopped up as the breakcore dismissed as fruitlessly intensified, they just adopt a more jazz drumming approach to the choppage.

 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
It's high time you jettisoned your cultural materialism.

It's high time you realised that You're a spineless leech who’d sell your own mother and kids into slavery for a crumb of attention, that is, if you could even learn how to copulate to begin with.

even someone like me (who doesn't take your temper tantrums or political views at all seriously) gets sick of jousting with you when you are nothing but an insufferable slovenly cunt. we could have a decent conversation but you are incapable of controlling your tendancies to ruin every thread you post in. I think you misconstrued freedom of speech with freedom to demand in primary school.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Also wouldn't mind some simple good old fashioned songs too. Even if that is conservative. And I mean, is it? You telling me you wouldn't want a Fleetwood Mac level song writing group now instead of the Swift and Sheerhan shit? Gimme some shit people will still remember in 20 years they can sing along to in a drunk unison at 3am in a stinking dive bar with a Terminator landscape outside the tobacco stained windows.

also lol, fleetwood Mac (at least over here) has always been considered student music. Which pretty much underlines @0bleak 's point. people only really have these standards for electronic music. Somehow it's got to be authentic - per whom? surely electronic sounds are both concrete and abstract?
 

luka

Well-known member
Its interesting how eighties fleetwood mac became inescapble ovwr the last... decade? No other fleetwood, just 7 wonders etc
 

luka

Well-known member
I really like it. Not sure theres another band where there late stuff is embraced over their earlier stuff. The beatles i guess, but on a[much] shorter timeline
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Its interesting how eighties fleetwood mac became inescapble ovwr the last... decade? No other fleetwood, just 7 wonders etc

it's very nice. spiritual contentment. tropical. fine ladies and fine men. balearic. Not sure if I could dwell in that zone for ever (well, I know I can't) but it can be a good voyage.

The thing though about nostalgia and childhood though is I could never actually want to go back to being deluded, but to be naive you have to be deluded. This is why morpheus was bad guy in matrix in my alternate rewrite. go back to the human world, don't embrace human folly and the machine. Basically a repeat of all of human mistakes. This is the conservative view and why it doesn't exist in the long run, it subconsciously wants to keep repeating failures that we learn from.

I wouldn't mind a revival of a fleetwood mac type band but without the horrible singalong in some stupid bar. noone goes to bars anymore. they were a mistake. our descendents will laugh at how primitive our narcotics were when they will be in space making contact with alien lifeforms and taking voyages across the milkyway.
 

0bleak

Well-known member
Its interesting how eighties fleetwood mac became inescapble ovwr the last... decade? No other fleetwood, just 7 wonders etc

That must be just a UK thing.
I even had to just look up 7 wonders - don't remember it.
It wasn't as big here as a couple of other 80s tunes by them, and even those 80s tunes aren't near as recognized anymore as much over here compared to earlier stuff.
 

luka

Well-known member
Yeah we have nothing in common with you music wise. Rock doesnt exist in this cpuntry
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
That must be just a UK thing.
I even had to just look up 7 wonders - don't remember it.
It wasn't as big here as a couple of other 80s tunes by them, and even those 80s tunes aren't near as recognized anymore as much over here compared to earlier stuff.

it's because Danny Rampling contracted an std in Ibiza circa 1985. Very South London thing to do. No, not healthy at all.
 
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