An Emergent Order

[william_kent]

no go on upset him

lol, I thought it was shit, I doubt he'd be perturbed by that opinion

 

[thirdform]

Something like that. We're trying to find/build the new meta-narrative, if there's one at all.

excuse me, I reserve the right to not be included in this 'we', and to completely abandon conversing with you in matters of politics if you persist in your libidinal eclecticist overexcitement!

2. Marxism, in the only valid sense of the word, is faced today by three main groups of adversaries. First group: those bourgeois who claim that the mercantile capitalist type of economy is the ultimate one, that its historical overcoming by the socialist mode of production is a false perspective, and who, very consistently, completely reject the entire doctrine of economic determinism and class struggle. Second group: the so-called Stalinist communists, who claim to accept Marxist historical and economic doctrines even though putting forward demands (in the advanced capitalist countries too) which are not revolutionary but identical to, if not worse than, the politics (democracy) and economics (popular progressivism) of the traditional reformists. Third group: the professed followers of the revolutionary doctrine and method who however attribute its present abandonment by the proletarian majority to initial defects and deficiencies in the theory; which needs, therefore, to be corrected and updated.
Negators – falsifiers – modernizers. We fight all three, but today consider the modernizers to be the worst.

 

[version]

Seems absolutely bonkers to not only wholly subscribe to a framework, but to also claim it has no defects and deficiencies and cannot be worked on. This is like Heaven's Gate shit.

 

[thirdform]

Seems absolutely bonkers to not only wholly subscribe to a framework, but to also claim it has no defects and deficiencies and cannot be worked on. This is like Heaven's Gate shit.

incomplete, not perfect. you are such a miserable bourgeois sad sack that needs to be chucked in a pit of snakes (as @luka would say) who would hold most people outside of England in contempt if you actually remotely became acquainted with most religious people of the world outside of cheshire or whichever primitive shitehole you are from again.

communists were killed by cia-sponsored death squads in the middle east, they have every right to cling to their class truth without being insulted by the title of a set of happy hardcore compilations.

anyway, like I said to patty, dogmatism is no criticism, we love you really. but you really need to become zealous in your life. It's very bad for you to be like this, very nietzsche's passive man who will be narcotised for the rest of his life. bad, very bad.

 

[version]

incomplete, not perfect. you are such a miserable bourgeois sad sack that needs to be chucked in a pit of snakes (as @luka would say) who would hold most people outside of England in contempt if you actually remotely became acquainted with most religious people of the world outside of cheshire or whichever primitive shitehole you are from again.

communists were killed by death squads, they have every right to cling to their class truth without being insulted by the title of a set of happy hardcore compilations.

anyway, like I said to patty, dogmatism is no criticism, we love you really. but you really need to become zealous in your life. It's very bad for you to be like this, very nietzsche's passive man who will be narcotised for the rest of his life. bad, very bad.

It's hard to look past the horrendous stuff done throughout history when people become convinced they have the right idea and decide to enforce it.

 

[thirdform]

anyway, that's not the point. we cling to it even if it has deficiencies and defects because it is our weapon.

there is nothing in the world which isn't without deficiencies if you want to go there.

11. Although it is now possible – or rather it was possible from when the proletariat first appeared on the great historical stage – to catch a glimpse of the future society without classes, and therefore without revolutions, it must be stated that the revolutionary class, in the long period leading up to that time, will only have completed its task insofar as it had pressed forward using a doctrine and methodology which had remained stable, and which had been fixed in a monolithic program for the duration of the terrible struggle – with the number of followers, and successfulness of particular phases and particular social battles, remaining all the while extremely variable.
12. Although, therefore, the ideological endowment of the revolutionary working class is no longer revelation, myth and idealism as it was for previous classes, but positive “science” instead, it nevertheless still needs a stable formulation of its principles and rules of action, which fulfill the purpose and have the same decisive efficacy as the dogmas, catechisms, tables, constitutions; and the ‘books of guidance’ such as the Vedas, the Talmud, the Bible, the Quran, and the Bills of Rights had in the past. The profound errors of form and substance contained in those books did not detract from, indeed in many cases they contributed to, their enormous organizational and social force, which was first revolutionary, then counterrevolutionary, in dialectical succession.
13. In the same way that Marxism excludes any kind of search for “absolute truth”, by seeing doctrine not as evidence of a timeless spirit or abstract reason, but as an “instrument” of work and as a “weapon” of combat, it postulates that, when exerting yourself to the utmost and in a pitched battle, you don’t send your tools or your weapons “off for repair”, but rather, in order to win in both peace and war, you need from the beginning the right equipment and weapons to brandish at the enemy.

 

[version]

there is nothing in the world which isn't without deficiencies if you want to go there.

I've been going there for the entire thread.

 

[thirdform]

It's hard to look past the horrendous stuff done throughout history when people become convinced they have the right idea and decide to enforce it.

those horrors are the price you pay for your liberal polycules. otherwise you probably would have been executed for homosexuality.

 

[version]

What would you say makes someone on the left end up like Shining Path or Camatte, i.e. a wrongun without turning to the right?

 

[thirdform]

I've been going there for the entire thread.

yes but as a thought experiment of reason. you should develop this understanding through work, even Rihanna knows.

 

[Benny Bunter]

There are deficiencies and defects, and then there are mass graves and mountains of skulls.

 

[version]

There are deficiencies and defects, and then there are mass graves and mountains of skulls.

Says Corpsey, giving us a tour of his home.

 

[version]

One of the values of postmodernism may be puncturing the frameworks underpinning some of the horrors of the 20th century.

 

[thirdform]

What would you say makes someone on the left end up like Shining Path or Camatte, i.e. a wrongun without turning to the right?

both are different.

Shining path is a residue of the coercive forms of punishment in peasant societies which generally end up producing surplus product for military consumption with high levels of the immobility of labour. In these sorts of forms of social organisation the person is utterly and completely tied to patriarchal agrarian communities, which is why these societies have always been highly religious.

Camatte relapsed into the Kantian cult of the artistic genius for Bordiga's oeuvre, and once the revolution didn't come circa 1968, he had to justify his fidelity even though Bordiga never signed his works and they have always been collective patrimony of the party of communism.

In reality Bordiga was always a function, as we all are, we work using the accumulated species-memory available to us.

 

[thirdform]

One of the values of postmodernism may be puncturing the frameworks underpinning some of the horrors of the 20th century.

yes, and this is why liberals can't combat fascism. this aversion to horror. Noone is asking you to celebrate horror, but turning away from it is exactly the liberal predicament.

 

[thirdform]

revolutions are horrible. there is no doubt about that. Cromwell was horrible. Robespierre was horrible. The Nat Turner rebellion was horrible. necessary, but horrible.

 

[Benny Bunter]

revolutions are horrible. there is no doubt about that. Cromwell was horrible. Robespierre was horrible. The Nat Turner rebellion was horrible. necessary, but horrible.

You might want to value human life a bit more there old chap, you sound like a psycho.

 

[version]

I've never felt comfortable with the prospect of having to decide someone's fate like that. I've no desire to be Cromwell or Robespierre.

 

[thirdform]

You might want to value human life a bit more there old chap, you sound like a psycho.

I unflinchingly embrace what is distasteful about human progress. you don't. In actuality you are the psycho.

 

[thirdform]

I've never felt comfortable with the prospect of having to decide someone's fate like that. I've no desire to be Cromwell or Robespierre.

Personally I don't want to kill anyone, not even most bourgeois, who at worst are just murderous culture and art wankers. But that's not how wars are fought, come on this is actually turning into teenage angst.