Conception of a 21st Century Mind

[version]

How do we currently think of the brain? Was suddenly struck by this wondering who an equivalent to D&G would write against now that Freud's history. Is there a dominant model to rail against? Is it the brain-as-computer/machine? The optimisation current we've been discussing seems to work on that assumption, that it's a piece of tech to be tweaked and upgraded. Neuralink, nootropics. The sense we're essentially dealing with something like a car, something which can be souped up, run on more efficient fuel, customised.

When you think of your brain, what do you picture? What's its structure?

 

[pattycakes]

Mine is Ray Liotta sat at Anthony Hopkins' dinner table and I'm Anthony and Ray at the same time

 

[version]

Another way people currently talk about it's as something separate from themselves, some sort of opponent or unruly companion. "My brain won't shut up", "I can't turn off my brain", "My brain won't let me".

 

[sufi]

How do we currently think of the brain, the mind? Was suddenly struck by this wondering who an equivalent to D&G would write against now that Freud's history. Is there a dominant model to rail against? Is it the brain-as-computer/machine? The optimisation current we've been discussing seems to work on that assumption, that it's a piece of tech to be tweaked and upgraded. Neuralink, nootropics. The sense we're essentially dealing with something like a car, something which can be souped up, run on more efficient fuel, customised.

When you think of your brain, what do you picture? What's its structure?

not like a car, the dominant model is the computer

 

[version]

not like a car, the dominant model is the computer

I mentioned the computer analogy too, but the fuel line works better with a car. You don't put stronger or purer electricity into a computer to boost performance.

 

[sufi]

I mentioned the computer analogy too, but the fuel line works better with a car. You don't put stronger or purer electricity into a computer to boost performance.

no, you upgrade the software

 

[sufi]

not like a car, the dominant model is the computer

"AI" is not so much emulating hooman brains as training them to be like it

not that the process started with AI, the ROM/RAM/CPU model of memory/consciousness is very hard to resist

 

[sufi]

"AI" is not so much emulating hooman brains as training them to be like it

not that the process started with AI, the ROM/RAM/CPU model of memory/consciousness is very hard to resist

but probably the mind as machine model has been there for a longer time, even before motor cars, computers are just the latest iteration

 

[sufi]

on a tangent, but i was reading about Tenrikyo

The Joyous Life in Tenrikyo is defined as charity and abstention from greed, selfishness, hatred, anger, covetousness, miserliness, grudge bearing, and arrogance. Negative tendencies are not known as sins in Tenrikyo, but rather as "dust" that can be swept away from the mind through hinokishin (ひのきしん or 日の寄進) and prayer. Hinokishin, voluntary effort, is performed not out of a desire to appear selfless, but out of gratitude for kashimono-karimono[11] and shugo (providence).
Ontology

One of the most basic teachings of Tenrikyo is kashimono-karimono (貸物借物 or 貸し物借り物), meaning "a thing lent, a thing borrowed". The thing that is lent and borrowed is the human body. Tenrikyo followers think of their minds as things that are under their own control, but their bodies are not completely under their control.[12]

 

[version]

no, you upgrade the software

Right, and the software/hardware angle squares with something like Musk's proposed brain chip. It isn't as good a model when discussing nootropics though, i.e. substances you can take for a supposed boost.

 

[sufi]

Right, and that squares with something like Musk's proposed brain chip. It isn't as good a model when discussing nootropics though, i.e. substances you can take for a supposed temporary boost.

you can upgrade the software by following any of the endless stream of guff/advice about "wellness"

 

[version]

you can upgrade the software by following any of the endless stream of guff/advice about "wellness"

Software: frameworks, concepts, techniques, etc.
Hardware: anything physically added to or altered in the brain.

 

[sufi]

Software: frameworks, concepts, techniques, etc.
Hardware: anything physically added to or altered in the brain.

well yeah that is a mechanistic model too

 

[thirdform]

but probably the mind as machine model has been there for a longer time, even before motor cars, computers are just the latest iteration

goes back to babbage's analytical engine, surely?

I mean even in the 1970s IBM computers were operated using punch cards.

 

[sufi]

well yeah that is a mechanistic model too

i don't think the brain works like that in reality - concepts and so on carve out physical routes through the grey matter

 

[sufi]

goes back to babbage's analytical engine, surely?

I mean even in the 1970s IBM computers were operated using punch cards.

i don't think we have a very clear perception of how it works or a good model to explain so we just borrow whatever is around

 

[sufi]

i don't think we have a very clear perception of how it works or a good model to explain so we just borrow whatever is around

i don't think the brain works like that in reality, concepts and so on carve out physical routes through the grey matter

so in fact it's more like the hannibal auto-cannibal scene

 

[version]

"AI" is not so much emulating hooman brains as training them to be like it

This goes back to the subject/object line I pulled from Baudrillard when I made the Objects thread. Who's working for whom?

but probably the mind as machine model has been there for a longer time, even before motor cars, computers are just the latest iteration

As we've been talking about Curtis again, this one of his deals with that idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_(TV_series)

Tenrikyo followers think of their minds as things that are under their own control, but their bodies are not completely under their control.[12]

I doubt I think about it in quite the same way they do, but this is roughly how it feels to me. My body has senses and impulses and functions I can't do anything about, but I can choose how to think about and respond to them to a certain degree. Obviously if I get seriously hurt then that goes out the window and I'll just have an automatic response, but generally it's a bit like observing and responding to something.

 

[version]

i don't think the brain works like that in reality - concepts and so on carve out physical routes through the grey matter

i don't think we have a very clear perception of how it works or a good model to explain so we just borrow whatever is around

Yeah, this is why I found it an interesting idea for a thread. It's at the centre of everything yet none of our models quite cut it.

 

[thirdform]

so in fact it's more like the hannibal auto-cannibal scene

I mean computers are just very mathematical machines. Computers do not have non-demonstrable intuitive knowledge, at present. You notice this if you train an llm. It cannot correct itself without exact linguistic prompts.