Bashment vs Dancehall - what's the difference?

[Melchior]

Captain Easychord asked in another thread what the difference between these was. I'd like to know to.

Is it that bashment is an English think, whereas Dancehall is Jamacian? Is that were the distinction lies?

 

[gabriel]

dancehall is a massively broad term, covering a huge amount of jamaican music, mostly stuff after about 1978/1980. bashment is much more specific, at least when used in england (in jamaica 'a bashment' just refers to a party). basically it generally refers to anything uptempo, jiggy, hardcore etc from the mid/late 90s until the present day. ie elephant man is a bashment artist, whereas very few people would refer to shabba ranks as a bashment artist. but they're both dancehall/reggae artists.

cf also ragga, again an english thing, again distinguishing between the more uptempo/hardcore side of dancehall and the more laidback, softer side, again time-specific (late 80s to mid 90s)

 

[droid]

dancehall is a massively broad term, covering a huge amount of jamaican music, mostly stuff after about 1978/1980. bashment is much more specific, at least when used in england (in jamaica 'a bashment' just refers to a party). basically it generally refers to anything uptempo, jiggy, hardcore etc from the mid/late 90s until the present day. ie elephant man is a bashment artist, whereas very few people would refer to shabba ranks as a bashment artist. but they're both dancehall/reggae artists.

cf also ragga, again an english thing, again distinguishing between the more uptempo/hardcore side of dancehall and the more laidback, softer side, again time-specific (late 80s to mid 90s)

Xiquet's completely OTM here... Thats a much better explanation than many of my mangled efforts in the past...

 

[Blackdown]

according to sarah bentley, who writes about this stuff, jamaicans say there's no such thing as 'ragga.'

 

[mms]

according to sarah bentley, who writes about this stuff, jamaicans say there's no such thing as 'ragga.'

isn't ragga or raggamuffin just a term to describe a style of yardish dress sense in the uk.

 

[droid]

according to sarah bentley, who writes about this stuff, jamaicans say there's no such thing as 'ragga.'

Hmm... its shortened from Raggamuffin innit....

Wikipedia:

"The name was given by the album from Asher D & Daddy Freddy - "Raggamuffin Hip-Hop" as well as the Daddy Freddy songs "Ragga House" with Simon Harris or "Ragga Rock" with Led Zeppelin."

 

[matt b]

dancehall is a massively broad term, covering a huge amount of jamaican music, mostly stuff after about 1978/1980)

confusingly, dancehall is also a specific style of reggae- the combination of junjo lawes/roots radics being the prime example- made in the post marley/ pre-digital era. see: barrington levy, eek-a-mouse etc etc

 

[stelfox]

according to sarah bentley, who writes about this stuff, jamaicans say there's no such thing as 'ragga.'

that's crazy, not to mention wrong.

 

[blissblogger]

i'd always wanted to know the answer to the question posed by the thread!

still not sure if i get it after the explanations

i'd always kinda thought it was something like
-- dancehall as specific style of post-reggae music and a sort of slack/rude/gangsta/party-down attitude that goes with it (going back to when dancehall consigned roots era to history)

-- bashment as more like a uk Noughties update of it, reflecting a sort of 'street beats' culture that's less JA-centric in its music policy but still very JA-inflected in terms of that aforementioned attitude/spirit, specific sound system rituals etc. so music wise bashment would be be dancehall but also significant smattering of other "urban" musics -- hip hop, r&b etc -- and non-JA caribbean musics -- soca , now reggaeton etc

is this, like, totally, off base?

 

[gabriel]

there is very little specific about the term dancehall and its use, but yeah, it can also be seen as a style within the wider reggae thing. hang on, though i see what you're saying, it's also used in a specific way for the late 70s/early 80s stuff. but then became less and less specific from then

ragga is not really a term used by jamaicans to describe music. i've never come across a jamaican saying that 'there's no such thing as ragga' though; that is kind of meaningless.

 

[gabriel]

i'd always kinda thought it was something like
-- dancehall as specific style of post-reggae music and a sort of slack/rude/gangsta/party-down attitude that goes with it (going back to when dancehall consigned roots era to history)

-- bashment as more like a uk Noughties update of it, reflecting a sort of 'street beats' culture that's less JA-centric in its music policy but still very JA-inflected in terms of that aforementioned attitude/spirit, specific sound system rituals etc. so music wise bashment would be be dancehall but also significant smattering of other "urban" musics -- hip hop, r&b etc -- and non-JA caribbean musics -- soca , now reggaeton etc

is this, like, totally, off base?

it's fair to say that most of what is called bashment is increasingly linked with other styles of black music but i don't think that's necessarily part of any definition of bashment. i.e. the term was being used back in 2000/01 when the us influence on jamaican dancehall was much less than it is today.

but yeah, in the ragga era artists never called out the 90s equivalents of celine dion, britney spears, 50 cent & ashanti in their tunes; fashion was not american-influenced; beats were generally not hip hop style. it was more ja-centric, as you say. but bashment isn't a more uk sound at all, it's just a uk term.

thuogh it may have started out as quite well defined (in much the way that 'dancehall' itself started out with a more specific meaning) i reckon the dancehall/roots opposition is now much less clear cut than many outside jamaica think. e.g. people like sizzla, jr gong and sean paul all do both styles. even people like luciano and i wayne have recorded 'dancehall' ie non-roots tracks. and shabba used to do some rootical stuff too.

 

[matt b]

i'd always kinda thought it was something like
-- dancehall as specific style of post-reggae music and a sort of slack/rude/gangsta/party-down attitude that goes with it (going back to when dancehall consigned roots era to history)

i wouldn't say its post-reggae- the same singers/djs/soundsystems were all involved, but it is a particular sound- stripped back, heavy and clean sounding (channel 1 went 16 track in the late 70s/ early 80s). lyrical content varies- there's plenty of rasta salutes, but its remembered (wrongly) as the beginning of slackness- general echo, yellowman.


it has multlple meanings, as both a specific musical style and as a general term: the dancehall as a physical entity has existed throughout reggae's history.

i'd bashment as more like a uk Noughties update of it, reflecting a sort of 'street beats' culture that's less JA-centric in its music policy but still very JA-inflected in terms of that aforementioned attitude/spirit, specific sound system rituals etc. so music wise bashment would be be dancehall but also significant smattering of other "urban" musics -- hip hop, r&b etc -- and non-JA caribbean musics -- soca , now reggaeton etc

xiquet is spot on about bashment- its essentially what would have been called ragga (and contains a lot of 'boom boom tish' drum patterns)

 

[zhao]

I think these terms do mean different things to non-jamaicans compared to jamaicans.

case in point: I recently went into a reggae specialty record shop, and the recent-transplant (who also happened to be a vocalist hisself) speaking heavily accented and barely understandable Patois/English had no idea what I meant by "dancehall". to him I think dancehall just means club, and not a style. I was like, "y'know, the boom boom, rah rah shit. the rap over hard hittin' beats. like Beanie Man" and still he was kind of confused (maybe just stoned).

maybe "modern" reaggae vs "classic" reggae is more useful? don't know...

I had wanted to post an "idiot's guide to reggae" thread for sometime. (me and people like me being the idiots). because there are a lot of terms I hear and have no idea what they mean... but never got around to it.

 

[dmg]

I thought the defining characteristic of ragga was that the music is entirely digital / sequenced. At least that what I remember reading somewhere.... which I guess means nothing.

 

[droid]

that's crazy, not to mention wrong.

That was pretty much my reaction too at first, but - I reckon she might be onto something with this... though Im sure most of us could name many dancehall tunes with 'raggmuffin' in the title or lyrics, I cant think of any off-hand with 'ragga'.

And when you think about where the term is actually used - its invariably on UK compilations: Hardcore Ragga/Conscious Ragga/Ragga Jungle Anthems/Just Ragga/Ragga Dancehall/Ragaa Ragga Ragga etc... - all (originally at least) aimed at the UK market, from UK based record companies like Charm, Greensleeves and Jet Star.

Worth a bit of investigation methinks..

 

[john eden]

That was pretty much my reaction too at first, but - I reckon she might be onto something with this... though Im sure most of us could name many dancehall tunes with 'raggmuffin' in the title or lyrics, I cant think of any off-hand with 'ragga'.

Terry Ganzie - "Ragga ragga" Digital B 7"

But yeah, ok, I had to look it up at soundquake. There is a tune on the greensleeves "2003 anthems" which features vocals about "ragga ragga, real ragga ragga" as well, tho.

 

[droid]

Terry Ganzie - "Ragga ragga" Digital B 7"

Good call! Tho its a mid-90s number, so the ragga meme may have seeped back into JA by then...

But yeah, ok, I had to look it up at soundquake. There is a tune on the greensleeves "2003 anthems" which features vocals about "ragga ragga, real ragga ragga" as well, tho.

hmm.. what we're really looking for is any evidence that 'ragga' is/was used to describe a variety or style of dancehall in JA. I dont believe that its a totally unknown term (as i think was the original 'crazy' assertion) - but by the looks of things its much more of a UK ting...

 

[droid]

Oi Eden! Have you recieved a suspicious package in the post recently?

 

[john eden]

Oi Eden! Have you recieved a suspicious package in the post recently?

errr not yet. I bet the people who work at my post box place are rinsing it out before passing it over...

shit, I never got back to your PM either, but the response is "likewise" and "yes up for that if I/we can sort out the time".

I think. Gots to go now!

 

[droid]

errr not yet. I bet the people who work at my post box place are rinsing it out before passing it over...

shit, I never got back to your PM either, but the response is "likewise" and "yes up for that if I/we can sort out the time".

Safe - Giz a shout when it arrives - shouldve been there by now...